A Master Networking Session from a Wall Street Salesman

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Networking still matters.

I'm not talking about social networks but establishing connections with people professionally and personally.

A lot of things in life happen due to relationships. It's how we develop trust, empathy, and connections.

Marc Angelos is a long-time Wall St. salesman who intimately understands the power of value of networking.

In this episode of Marketing Spark, Marc takes a deep dive into the keys to success networking and how to make it happen in a digital world.

I'm Mark Evans and welcome to MarketsPark, podcast of letters, insight from marketers and entrepreneurs in thetrenches in twenty five minutes or less. When I started my career, networkingwas an important part of freer, build, not social networking, but meetingconnecting building relationships with the rise of the Internet. Networkinghas clearly changed. We use zoom, SS and email to digitally communicate and when coved recedes its unclear, howin person medians will bounce back to discover the secrets and importanceof great networking, I'm talking with Mardan Gelos, a digital marketingstrategist and a long time relationship builder welcome to market his bark. Thank you very much market's pleasureto be here. Let's start by talking about personalbranding and the power of networking for all the talk about digitaltechnology, social media networking as a marketing tool doesn't get muchattention, so provide some insight into whether it's still relevant and howpeople can effectively network in the digital world sure. So what people always overlookmark is that networking is the foundational component of social mediaright. The whole point of it is to network it, although it gets transmutedat the sales and all that other bit that we know it is really about peopleconnecting with people. That's not changing so humans as a social animalnot going away. What's different, though, is the kind activity piece a itoccurs in a different manner now and be the existence of social media, the riseof these channels. These digital platforms has transformed networking.We more than the Internet itself, has people think of it as a dynamic of justtechnology, but in the old days we're all familiar with six degrees ofseparation. You could get. You know you can meet almost anyone through thesixth iteration you're, now one DM away from the presidency right when that,when you can speak directly one to one, it changes the dynamic of everythingfrom sales to marketing a networking. Networking now has to be predicatedupon the value delivery component of what I can do for someone else, whichis the inverse way. Most people look at it right. I worked for twenty sevenyears on Wall Street in their relationship, management, roll and thewhole concept there. The reason I lasted as long as I did if you know howto touch base with someone in an additive manner and then that's themagic we're all familiar with specially on linked in, I know, you're veryactive on it. The old you can tell right away when there's thetransactional feel when someone reaches out to you m. They want something fromyou and that that whole thing is not the way forward. You already know this:everyone out. There is aware of it: The new generation of leaders. I mean thisfrom disease on up it's, this BS detector is on ten there's, no morepushing and pounding and pitching so networking becomes a game of what can Ido for you, so you- and I are on this conversationright now in the back of my head- I'm thinking what can I do for mark andthat might not be business. It might just be connections to someone. I knowsome insights on how you're running your show whatever, but it's somethingthat you will benefit from, so you and I are contemporaries back inthe day, and I say that you know ten years ago, fifteen years ago,networking was meeting people for lunch. Going to networking events may be going golfing with them. It wasabout personal relationships in personal relationships, where I got tofeel for you and your body language and just the way that you operate, and thatgave me a sense of whether it you should be part of my network andovertime. You know you work your network in nurture network, a lot ofphysical work to do that is that still relevant today? Are we still in personnetwork and still relevant, and how do...

...you cross the chasm from digital topersonal? It's a multi phase, ponty park question here, so we have to get into the definitionof personal. Does that mean in person, because here's why I say this I have.My son is online with four of his best friends that he's never met, three ofwhich are different countries and that's been the case throughout thelock down. So now is that a real relationship is that an IM person thing?The point is: Will they do for Each Other? Yes, the old days of Golfing anddinners and even meeting for a cup of coffee or my world was grabbing a beerafter work at the bar with your customer. That's not going on right nowand we'll come back eventually, but not for a while that doesn't mean you can'tstill develop that direct one on one personal relationship and believe it ornot you kind of have to like this is a digital world. Now for one or for goodof or ill the reality is, you can, and you should, and actually the onus isupon you to do that. I think that what people don't recognizeis how to do that right. This is now getting into the world your world, thecontent world, you quote, unquote, have a conversation every day, whether it'sthrough the podcast, whether it's but our posting, on linked in you're, veryactive in communicating your perspective and helpful insights thathelps people develop a relationship. Those of us who didn't grow up in thatworld have to either learn that skill and start exercising it or suffer theconsequences that, if you don't speak in the digital world, you don't exist. So networking really means right now,adding to other people's content, putting up content of your own. Butagain it's got to be with that value and approach you're very familiar withit of how can I help these people yeah? A couple comments. One. Is that it'sinteresting that your son has relationships with people in othercountries? My Son has these three friends that he's met online. They livethousands of miles away in western Canada and he's got this very intimaterelationship with them and in fact he wants to go visit them this summer, forone of them is as having a birthday party and on one hand in the old world.You said that's really weird, but in the new world, that's completelyacceptable is just the way that things are done. One question I did want toask: You is whether the in person networking is going to come back. Willwe meet for Beers? One of the things I ask myself when it comes to coffeemeetings is whether that'll happen again, because when you think about it,a coffee meeting is a two hour. Endeavor there's about half an hour toget there, there's the hour that you spend with the person and you're, noteven sure, if it's going to work out and then there's a half hour to getback to your office or even longer, that's a big investment for a firsttime touch with somebody. I think in some ways I don't want to do that. Igras it's just too much risk right. So the question is: How much will theCoffees, the beers just getting together? People come back or whetherwe are in a new reality now, so the reality is that it is going tocome back right in some form. However, there's got to be a judicious elementnow to what you just said to. Is it worth my time, and I don't mean this isnot in the face of the transactional thing I just mentioned it. Is thatthere's there's an element in when you get married. You send out yourinvitations on very expensive paper right. Why? Because there's acommitment there, that people recognize the high quality and what you spent inthe invitation represents something, and that's the same thing when someoneinvests time to come visit you, my previous jobs back on Wall Street, Iwas covering customers in Europe, so I was there quite frequently on airplanes,et Cetera. What that means is you have to make the decision? Is this personpotentially worth the effort and on the inverse of that, the person that willbe there for the meeting is thinking mark is willing to come and make thistime in his schedule when he could do this over a zoom call, and so it doesadd a new dynamic to networking right,...

...there's this element of. Are they worthit? I am worth it depending on whatever side of that table, you're on, but yeahsure I'll come back. I mean there's going to be beers and dinners humansare social creatures. One thing I will say is that the value of meetingsomebody obviously makes a difference. It shows there's a sense of commitment,so, for example, if I get approached by prospect about a big marketing projectand the fact that I'm willing to meet them in person a year ago, that wasnecessary. That was absolutely necessary, because if you didn't meetwith them, you weren't serious today. I think I could probably jump on a zoomcall at their convenience. Meet them learn about what they want, get a feelfor whether it's a fit or not and make a proposal, and I don't even think theyexpect me to meet with them. I think in my world that is the new reality. Ithink you raise a good point there mark, but they also don't forget thatexpectations out change radically with the lock down. So yes, but goingforward, I don't think people will be as insulted by those not making theeffort, but that also means, on the flip side, that those who do make theeffort when it's tradicion determined, are going to have that much moreleverage in that conversation, and I think that's going to be theinteresting thing to see how things snap back, I hate the phrase to normal,because it's not going to be normal anymore, but how people flip back totheir old behavior. So, whereas before you- and I are doing this virtually ifthis was a prospective meeting, but in a month two months, three months fromnow, I could be. The expectation may be that you're going to come down and meetme and if you're really serious about doing business, is me that's the wayit's going to happen. I agree with you back to theexpectations piece. When we were kids, they were pen pals. You didn't reallyhave expectations of meeting your pen path. They were far away in the worldand you hope to, but it wasn't really on the radar. Now your son absolutelyis expecting to one day sit down and meet in person. That's part of theappeal of the relationship, my friend my son's friends. I've asked him like:Where are these guys located and first few months he's like? I don't knowsomeone's not in America, though I know caus the time zone like okay, but thisis the world, so I think that people will develop. Those relationships inperson becomes the secondary piece which touches back on the networkingmark. The whole concept of social media and digital engagement like this ismerely the entree point for an impersonal relationship, and I think toyour point, not everyone's going to want to make that second step. That'swhere you figure out as this person part of my tribe quote unquote, but Ido think that this becomes it's a new version of relationship building, butit's still relationship building, one of the metrics when it comes todigital network in his connections, the number of followers you have the numberof connections on linked in and a lot of people equate connections to network.If I have five thousand connections, I have ahuge network, but that can't be the case because it's easy to connect withsomebody, but it's different to have a relationship with them. So how do youexplain to people that connections are not is not network, or maybe it is. Idon't know tell me so there's an old expression. A goodfriend will help you move. A great friend will help you move the body.This comes down to how what is the depth of the relationship versus thebreath of how many relationships I have now if I've got ten thousandconnections on linked in and none of them respond to anything I post. Isthat really a relationship? Obviously the answers now. On the other hand, ifI only have four hundred- and each of them are willing to pay me ten Sandolasfor the services, I'm offering that's as death death matters- depth is moreimportant than anything. It always was digital or not. It's got nothing to dowith technology. If you have a connection with someone and they callyou up, it's your best friend and he says mark I need you it's two in themorning, can you come you're going to go? You don't ask any questions I'll,be there versus some Randa? Who I kind...

...of knows you and whatever my point isthe relationship aspect doesn't change the mediums they change, but it doesn't.The human thing is still there the power of connection depth over breath.I think that people they don't they don't see that, because the metric gamethat social media is introduced to this younger generation, a d and the olderones, have fallen fort as well. It is a numbers game right. This is theeveryone loves data metrics. But this is my argument in the old sales world Icame out of it's. You got to not conflata the tail with the dog right,people will do for you and buy from you and R and connect with you if they wantto that's it, it's not about how many you already have I'm probably preaching the choir here. Well, one of the reasons why I thinklinkin has worked so well. For me in the last year is that connections arejust a starting point. I read a lot of content. I find interesting people I'llconnect with them, but the key to my success has been conversations and Iwill reach out to people, because I've got a small relationship with them andI'll say, for example, hey mark. I love your content, love the way that youexplained this. Would you be open to a zoom call in many cases? In most cases,people say yes, and then you jump on a call of someone. You have a thirtyminute conversation and all a sudden, the relationship changes they go from aconnection to a relationship and some of those are worn offs where you talkto them once and that's it and some of them. You continue to have ongoingconversations and you may jump on another call with them because you feellike you've got. I don't know if it's the weight word is friend, butcertainly you've got like a real connection, where there are some peoplethat if I got an airplane- and I was in their town and and I ping them on linkin and said you want to meet four beer, they would say absolutely because theyknow me provides some best practices in terms of how to make the leap fromconnections to conversations, because I think that's the magic of digitalnetwork and a networking in general I'll break it down like this mark andhere his reactionable steps. Your Super Power and the reason you've been sosuccessful on linked in and I'm talking to you as mark is because of thesethree reasons, and these are plicable to anyone everywhere. Number One.Curiosity right, you are genuinely curious. When you look at some muchcontent, you chase them down most folks, don't take the time to reallyinvestigate. So curiosity is always the starting point for anyone's success inanything number two active listening. You illustrate this perfectly, but thisis an old sales tactic where people get in there and they don't ask anyquestions other than to answer, then to listen. Rather, they only want to hearand- and you do this you're paying attention you're, knowing what the whatthe stream of question, I should go. You're trying to figure out activelistening is such a rarity these days, so folks who learn to actively listenand what that means in practice is. Can I repeat back to you what you just said?In my words- and you agree so active listing is number two and the thirdpiece is empathy right. That's what you are also doing here as well. Empathymeans understanding of N H other person's perspective when you'recurious, when you're listening to what they're saying and you start to try tosee it their way. This is sales one O one relationship building. You can callit networking, it's people connecting is all it is, and those three thingsare not taught not formally and they're, not really accentuated at all by theeducational system, which is a whole another world. But my point is you haveto take the active role in learning? These things will call them. EQ skillswill call them soft skills, they're more important than the technologyskills that we all value so highly and I may be bias, but I'm coming out oftwenty seven years of selling artificial intelligence software. So Iknow what I'm talking about here. The ability to connect with someone is thefirst step to anything to selling, to relating to building a friendship andthat's the thing where you need to take it on yourself. What are the steps Ineed to do? I need to literally spend...

...the time getting on linked in, and youread people's comment and you go look at their content and then you can touchbase. Ask them questions, but you do it in the empathetic fashion. You do it inan honoring value, oriented approach and that's also a skill. That's that's.Probably skill them afore there learning how to communicate in a mannerthat builds people up so that they want to engage in return. Let's go back to an earlier comment.You said about content and the need to give as opposed to take, because thereare obviously people on social media that are looking to take they'relooking to sell you something right away, even though they don't have arelationship. The good people, the people who are really effective atnetworking are producing a lot of content. They're, leaving many comments,they're engaging with people, and do you think that people forget about thevalue of content and the value of giving when they're trying to drivenetworking digitally? Yes, I think it's a great point valuedelivery is the game always in life? Forget about social technology, allowsyou to magnify that, but if you're not delivering value at scale, then you'renot really worth having in the network. If you will- and this is not giving toget something this is giving to give because in the sense the world we livein now with that six degrees of separation becomes one DM thing. We nowhave people who have to choose to want to do business with you or to engageand connect, and if they don't make that active choice, you're out, whywould they choose to do that because you give more than you take everyoneand everything wants something right in life. You know that anyone you meet islooking for something, and I don't mean sales. I just mean there's somethingthat they're looking to do with their life goal. If you can approach everyonein that regard and deliver as much as you can in the area that you think willhelp them, even if it's not correct, they'll recognize your intent andintent matters. Intent is a real thing by the way, intent is a weapon. If Ireally go out of my way to try to help Mark Evans, if I'm get off this call,and I think to myself- you know what something that daunts on me now when Igo back to you with it, something that might help you you're going to say thisis this: Is a good guy? That's the game, because there's not enough business togo around. There's not there's so many channels it comes down to who do I wantto associate with? What do I want to give my business to who do I want to beable to be there if they need me? One of the interesting things aboutbusiness- and I repeat this on a regular basis- is that people don't buyfrom companies people by from people. In many cases you buy based on therelationship, whether you like somebody or you trust them. When I was areporter, for example, people would tell me things because they liked meand they trusted me, and they wanted to have that back and forth relationship,and I think that's one of the reasons why writing a lot of content on linkedand make sense, because people believe they get to know you they get to the o,know your thoughts and your ideas and your willingness to help people- and Ithink that makes a difference- is that it's still about trust and its stillabout it's still about whether a like ability, if whether we like it or not,whether it's digital or in person, I think people don't recognize that whatthey're selling first and foremost is themselves. So you you, as you as anindividual. Whoever this is, is a product on the web, no different fromany company, no different from many widget, and that means your sales foron m peace. Is Your communication right? It doesn't have to be formal, it couldbe informal on the phone it could be in person, but he or it could beformalized in content, but there's a sale that has to happen before you evenget to say what you're going to say and that's the part where the valueorientation when I was in Wall Street all those years and I jumped a bunch ofjobs and there are they're all big firms you know, but it was the samecustomer base and the reason it was never difficult for me to switch jobswas because the customer value the customers knew there was value there,they'd be willing to follow me firm to firm, and so that comes down to that inreal life. It doesn't matter what you...

...do mark like what career you are in. Ifyou decide that you want to give up on PODCAST ING and go become a hot airballoonist. If people are behind you they're in there they're like do takeus on this journey. Let's go because they they're invested in you, you, theperson and so people have to think of themselves. As I need a front end on meof communication, it's not I'm not selling anything per se, but you kindof are right. The first thing, the first in impression you're going tohave of me, is going to be content, no matter what the first thing anyone everdoes is check someone out online period and that's it for what's. There is whatyou're putting there it's interesting there's a lot of talkthese days about account, base marketing or AB, and it's I the ideathat you would focus on a small number or a limited number of customers andyou would personalize your marketing to them on a regular basis so that, ratherthan having a shotgun approach to marketing it's very focused and in somerespects, networking is really a B m. We are focused on a small number ofpeople or a limited number of people that we want to have relationships withbecause, as you say, it's a give and take relationship or always looking forsomething- and I think that's ironic, because there's such a reliance on technology to make thingshappen, relationships are fundamentally we're marketing and sales happens. I agree with that because it's allabout life is about relationships. I'm formerly religion, manager, Lassalles,I'm not a marketing guy, I'm in the marketing world. Now that's what I dofor a living. I can tell you the whole concept of funnels and Lee Gen andconversion rates. People get hooked on that and think that's the game whenreally that's the first step takes you to what really matters. Therelationship piece you reference and that relationship piece is all thatmatters at that point. If I'm going to play the game of my ten thousand leadsgo out and I get one percent conversion and I just have to keep doing this andI never build a relationship. There's no business there. How many times haveyou bought from a brand new online retailer? You know amazons great youlike them, they do a good job for you. You got a relationship with them.That's the way most people want that nobody wants to switch unless they'reunhappy, but it comes down to do I like these people. Do I have a relationshipand firms have relationships. You don't think of it this way, but right now I got Disney. Plus most of ushave Disney plas. You can have seven accounts. I've got my friends andfamily on my account. No big deal, it's all free at some point. I know they'regoing to convert those folks and start charging them now. That's manipulative,if you think about it, but it's not really because it's Disney and it's asoft magic company- and I like that, but face book who's, also trying tomanipulate me my connections to try to find a WHO I connect with that'smanipulated and evil, but face book I think of. Is this scared beast? So it'sa different. The relationship I have with face book is different from therelation I have with Disney and so people and companies it's aboutrelationship. Let me pull you on the spot, get yourpredictions for social media in two thousand and twenty one, particularlyaround linked in which has had a moment. I mean the last year to eighteen monthshas been tremendous for lengthen. I think they're close to seven hundredand forty million users and the other platform of interest. These days isobviously club house. What are your thoughts about both those platforms intwo thousand and Twenty One ye? So I don't do not play in spot of all. Thisis a tried and true formula link is going. The way a face book right,Lincoln, is great. I love Linkin. I've been on it as long as you have it isgetting jammed up with content. It's going to move to a pay to play kind ofmodel where the you want, your content to have read, you're going to pay forit and it evolves into the real value delivery folks will emerge, because wejust talked about that that metric game, the SEO optimistic and key words likethat's not going to play in a world-...

...that's too crowded it's going to become.I want to do business with Mark Evans because I, like the guy, you just saidit the same with your journalist background. So as far as Linkin isconcerned, it's going to continue to evolve into the real value deliveryfolks who have real communication skills and are able to attract thecrowd because of the value they give to that crowd. I actually, I think Darryvanter is a great example in that and the world of Club House. I've doneprobably two or three these a week now for a month and a half two months- andI can tell you Calbas- is it's someone called the once a cross between aconference and a podcast Clon House is going to get a ton of competition right.Twitter is introducing their version of it. It's not just going to be the onlyaudio platform, so as the world gets flooded with more club houses, and thatwill happen, it becomes the feature everyone has you're going to start tosee. The POMO disappear right, this fear of missing out, which is whichdriving a lot of clubhouse right, nowwill filter away, and then it goesback to the same old game of who brings real value. I know you're on club AliceMark There's a lot of snake oil salesmen in there right now, especiallyin like the how to build wealth, get rich rooms. Those folks will getflushed and you're going to be left with folks who really bring content andcontacts and helpful insights guys like yourself and that's going to takeprobably a year to get to that point is if you want to really put time on that,but I think eventually clubhouse becomes common and I think it becomesmore of a value delivery game life is always value. Delivering a social mediawas really valuable at one point now it's kind of noisy one final question and I would beremisse because having written three books- and I understand that they arelabors of love at the at the very most, and if you sell a book beyond yourfriends and family you're, doing really well. You've got a new book coming outcalled content is the new sales? What motivated this this activity? Why didyou embrace the idea of a book because it's a lot of work and give us a littlesnap shot of what the books about sure? So I years ago, when I wasworking on Wall Street, I recognized the value of bringing content to peopleright, and this is before pandemic this. Before lock down, I used to post weeklyarticles and videos on linked in and drove a lot of business, and Irecognized early on okay contents at an avenue for selling. But now, as we allknow, in the world, we live in, it's essentially the only avenue for sellingM, and so content is now replacing the IM person visit as you referencedearlier. So what does that mean to business as a business man and havingworked in finance all these years? I can tell you. It means that all of asudden, every salesperson has to become a content producer. Here's the dilemmanow and you'll relate to this mork sales people are trained in the contentchannels, in fact they're penalized for using them they're not supposed to beon them. The marketing folks use them they're, very adroit with them they'regreat. However, the marketing folks don't speak to the customers daily, andso they don't have the customers stories that the sales people have m.So what's going to emerge in the world of business, in my view, is going to bethis merging of sales and marketing likeright now as it is, it used to be. The marketing did most of the communicationon the channels sales is going to start to take over more of that, because theyhave the customer story because they can recycled into look alike content.What they've already seen and they'll need the marketing teams help to dothat. So I think there's a new version of business emerging, we're going tocall it relationship management, digital account manager. You can termwhat you like, but it's it doesn't exist yet right now, in currentbusiness today, companies are still thinking of it, as marketings got thechannels sales takes it over from there. It doesn't work like that any more. When does the book come out and did youself publish, or did you get a publisher? It's self published bookwill come out in three months and, to be honest with you, I really feel likeit's going to lay out...

...the process of what companies need todo like what are the action steps you have to take? How do you integratesales and marketing? What type of content works, the demographic, thepsychographic of the channels? I know you're familiar with this, but salespeople aren't, for the most part, be to be sales folks, they're, not given themarketing background that they now are suddenly need to have and by the way,with sails, shut down for visits face to face to see sweet saw. Looking atthe marketing folks like okay, let's make the revenue happen and marketingslike we know how to make the communication happen, but we don't havethe customer information yeah when the book comes out. Let me know obviously,on Linkean and I'll do my best to spread the word well. This is bit agreat conversation. We I haven't talked about networking and the value ofrelationships in the podcast. So it's a nice change of pace from all the talkabout technology. One final question: If people want to learn more about youand what you do, where are you on the web sure I'm on all my social handlesor Mark Angelo's, N Y C, which is where I'm from and in Victo, with an a is mywebsite? The last thing I'll tell you more, though, about the networking someaction steps for your people to take a daily practice find some way to make adaily practice of leaving content on people's cut. You know comments onpeople's content and ideally posting something value added, because there'sso much garbage out there valuable where someone wants to learn about whatyou do. You give him a couple of tips daily practice, awesome great way toand the podcast thanks for listening to another episode of marketing spark. Ifyou enjoyed the conversation, leave a review and subscribe by Iton Potifer oryour favorite podcast up for show notes of today's conversation and informationabout mark. is it marketing spark cos last lot if you'd like to learn moreabout how I help me to be SASS companies, a fractional, Co, Tucicadviser and coach send an email to mark marketing, spark DICO I'll talk. I I.

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