A Deep Dive into the World of B2B Content Production: Brad Smith

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

As more B2B brands embrace content marketing as the way to engage, educate, and connect with prospects and customers, it's becoming increasingly difficult to break through and stand out.

In this episode of Marketing Spark, Brad Smith, CEO with Wordable, offers in-depth insight into:

  • How companies should approach content marketing
  • The importance of focusing on keywords that can be ranked for in the short term.
  • How to build a content marketing team and how to assess its performance
  • How to never run out of content ideas
  • How to effectively distribution content once it's been published.

Forty five of the whatever, thoughexactly know it's like our us. Five minutes in the nearer alogey. Three. Okay, here, we got me in. Three, two, one. It's Mark Evans and you're listening to marketing spark. According to the popularadage, content is king. That may or not may not be true,but many BDB SAS companies, have enthusiastically embraced content. Over the past eighteenmonths. Content marketing took on more importance when conferences disappeared and many companies scrambledto not only create content, but create content that engaged, educated, encouragedand made an impact. As the CEO of wordable, Brad Smith has afront row seat in the world of content marketing, and it should be notedthat his front row seat is located in Hawaii, which is a pretty sweetplaced. Sorry, and it should be noted that his front row seat islocated in Hawaii, which is a pretty sweet place to operate. Welcome tomarketing spark, Brad. Be Your mark look a part of both. Let'sstart by talking about the content marketing landscape. Over the past eighteen months, asa content creator, it has been fascinating to see how many brands havejumped on the content bandwagons, some of them successfully and some of them appearto be going through the motions and creating content for the sake of content.What's your take on how the landscape has evolved since covid emerged in March?At Two Thousand and twenty? Yeah, definitely it's I would definitely agree withyour point and if anything, it almost like things got accelerated. The trends, the underlying trends, were already there. I think they just were sped upand made even more intense. So you see things like huge publishers,for instance, doing affiliate content. So you see big websites getting better andand what that does is it kind of raises the bar. And so notonly do you have like more competition for like your direct competition that everyone thinksabout, you have more competition indirectly. So you're now ranking against Amazon orForbes or whatever, even if you have nothing to do, you know,businesswise, with those people. You're competing in a sense of search engine,you know, rankings, the actual results on the page. Other issues tolike your Google actively taking spots away through a few different ways. So onethey're doing more. You paid listings on a searching the result page to they'redoing instant answers. So what they're doing essentially is like scraping your content.If you look, if you search for, like, how to make an oldfashion, you're going to see a recipe show up and it's going tobe scraped from some website that's already ranking. Someone's going to get their answer,they're going to get their recipe and they don't have to actually click intothe page to read whatever it is that's on that site. And so youknow, if that, if that person's monetizing through ads or something else,than they're in trouble. Do you have all these kind of like issues thatare all coming to a head and and what we're seeing as a greater divergencebetween like the you know, the halves...

...and the have knots, for lackof better expression, like the the amount of focus and attention going to likethe first view positions on a page when you're trying to rank something is isbecoming much greater. You might see more skewed landscape, whereas anything else that'snot good enough or is just kind of mediocre or average. To your point, it's almost just getting it's just getting pumped out into the black hole thatthat isn't getting seen or clicked or shared or linked to or whatever. Soit sounds like content marketing has become a more challenging landscape and I'm curious aboutwhat has surprised you. You know what separated companies that have thrived amid fiercecompetition for eyeballs. What are they doing and do you have any examples ofbrands that are doing content marketing well? That's a really good question. Idefinitely a few examples of companies doing it well. I think one thing thathas surprised me is how much big websites are still able to leverage their brandand their domain authority to rank for things in categories that they might not havethat much to do with, and so you see this a lot. Again, and going back to like a publishing example or affiliate spaces, just asa point of comparison, where you might have huge websites like a forms orsomeone else ranking for something like, you know, invoicing software reviews or somethingjust completely kind of random, but you would you wouldn't think what everything todo with that, and they're they're starting to rank really well with relatively averagecontent. So that's kind of like the bad news, I think, ina way where it's kind of like a trend that I don't love to seebecause again, I don't want to see poor content be rewarded that greatly.But but the good news is you do have a lot of like, youknow, smaller, smaller in a sense of where they're starting, but smallerstaff, companies being able to do content really well and go deeper. Soif that example, if the Ford example, is they're going like broad but shallow, I think what you're saying today is a lot of really good companiesbeing able to go really, really deep in there, you know, categoriesor in their spaces, and still do really well. Now, I'm notsure if this is a fair question, but what do you see as thekeys to breaking through when everyone is pumping out content? Is it quality content, and I put quality in quotation marks because it's a very subjective kind ofthing. Is it SEO? Does it depend on having the right strategic plan? It isn't. Isn't a matter of luck. I mean, what aresome of the variables that that you see as critical when you're trying to,you know, merge? I'm made a content tsunami. Yeah, definitely.I think it's I like to think of it as a balance score card.So you have the brand and the website strength overall that, and you havelike the strategy and the strategic kind of strategic viewpoint behind it, of likewhere're going and why. You have the...

...content itself, so how it's written, whether or not their subject matters experts included in that or not. Again, you can tell pretty quickly if something's kind of engineering watered down or ifit's really interesting and nuance and kind of balanced and complex. Then you havejust beyond the actual writing itself, you have things like, you know,multi media, so images, podcast, video. How is that being includedin that? That you have the actual nerdy seo stuff, so everything fromTopical Authority to the actual keywords of researching to the link building, link buildingin PR and distribution. So I think if you think about it, thegood news is if you think about all this stuff, like how marketing andadvertising and promotion used to be back in the S, it's pretty similar.So, like I just gave you an example distribution, what we're doing todayisn't that different. It's just kind of like a new medium. I thinkthe important point is figuring out how you get all the things to light up. So, if we're talking about how you distribute content, are you working? Are you PR teams working together with content teams, to have advertising teamsworking with content teams? Like those disconnects are often where things fall. Butthe better you can like align all those things typically, the greater success wesee with like blush of the larger companies worth. Yeah, I think it'sit's interesting that coordination and having a strategic plan is so important, because manycompanies look at content as simply creating content and then they forget about seo distribution, identifying and connecting with influencers. So there's so many variables that go intocontent marketing success that a lot of companies just don't take into account. Iguess what I'm curious about who's doing content well, I mean really well.Is there content that you want to read because it's because it's interesting, yourcompelling and you can you can recommend or suggest one of your clients as anexample of a company that really is standing out from the crowd. Yeah,that's a good question. I was going to say a load of question forsure, because I got to sit here and mention all of our work,right. But so we work with MONDAYCOM. I think they're doing an amazing job. I think one of the challenges they face is they their tool couldwork for almost any category, any like bb category. So we might bedoing content on project management, but we might also be doing pro might alsobe doing content on agile software development, we might also be doing something completelydifferent. I say, I think that's extremely challenging and it means you're doingnot just quality content but high quantity to and that brings up a whole hostof other issues like, well, how do you get super high quantity withoutletting the quality bar drop? And that's through a bunch of other, youknow, intense things like operations and processes and role specialization. So kind ofjust brings up a whole slew of other issues. Where a lot of companiesthat do content well today, especially smaller ones, they have like a goodwriter or a couple good writers and they're heavily reliant on individuals and talents,which is a good thing. But I think for some of the larger companies, or like the hyper growth companies,...

...what you see is they're more relianton like the machine and building out the machine in the factory, in theassembly line of the sel person works with the strategy person, who hands itoff to the writer, who hands it off to the editor, who handsit off to the optimizer, hands the producer, and there's like this thisthis very detailed assembly line, very kind of like old school manufacturing mentality ofoperation. That I think is really important in today's environment and not enough marketersand marketing teams are strong in that area. That makes sense. So if youlook at what Moneycom is doing, and I see their ads all thetime, so it's hard to escape them. Yeah, are there two or threethings that they've embrace that has helped their content marketing thrive? Yeah,definitely. I think again, it goes back to from the very beginning,to a very strong focus on like who's their customer and why? So,like who what segments convert the best? Who has the highest lifetime value asa segment, and and figuring and then backing that into what like key categories. For example, should we even be publishing in the very beginning, becausethey could be publishing on everything and anything like. How do we actually focusin narrow down from there? It's then figuring out, okay, well,how do we actually get keywords and spaces that we can win? And sothis is something I like to like Harpon, but again it's kind of an oldcliche. But like measure twice, cut once. In today's like competitivekind of surup environment, the outsize results. Let's say, if you look atclick through rates on a searchage result page, let's say sixty, seventyeighty percent go to like the top three or four results. Right, it'snot good enough to like to top out a position eight on a surf.You might as well like not even. It sounds good because you're on thefirst page, but you're probably getting like a sliver of any traffic, whereasif you can get up until like the top five, top for top three, it becomes heavily skewed where you're getting all a sudden fifty, sixty,seventy percent of the action. So if you're applying that to like a muchbroader content strategy where you are publishing in a high quantity, it's super,super important that you're making sure that you're publishing not just like on the biggestkeywords in your space or the ones with the most commercial intent yes, thosethings are important, but they might take years to actually to rank for.So so what are we talking and why? Meaning like, let's actually create contentthat we know we can win and we know we can rank four withinthe next six months, because that's going to give us the biggest boost tothen kind of stare step our way up up to that other competitive stuff.You know, I love that piece of advice because I've been working with alot of bb SASS clients looking at how to leverage content marketing in it.And you're right. I mean you you want to win in particular keywords orphrases, because there's so much competition out there that it's going to take youforever to rank for the top keywords and that's just not a strategy that's goingto produce our wine the short term. No, totally hinted added a littlebit, but what do you see is the biggest stakes that Bab companies makewhen it comes to content marketing? I suspect the list could be fairly extensive. Definitely. So that's one that we...

...just touched on. Is Competing forthe wrong things the wrong times. So, knowing that it's kind of a chickenand egg problem as an example. Word of bles really small. Wejust we just acquired it about a year ago. Traffic was trending down.I think we're at like Fivezero monthly visits when we acquired it. So supersmall. One of the first problems that we are facing is, okay,well, we can't go after the biggest keywords in our space right now.Long, long term we can, but it might take, you know,to three years realistically, did to rank for that stuff. So in theshort term we do something else and we need to take a take a differentapproach and go after keywords we can rank for. And I think now we'reup to like thirty, fortyzero a month in terms of monthly traffic. Andit was just this whole stair step approach of okay, we're going to goafter this this less competitive stuff first because we know we can win there andwe're going to rank well for it. And once our website is bigger,once we have more links, once we have more content which we have moretopical authorities there is, we can come back and rank for that competitive stuff. The other big one we touched on already too, which is operations.So I think marketers and marketers are marketers. Don't have an issue with creativity.That's what that's why we all do this, that's why we're all likein this in this field. They have an issue with processes and all theboring stuff, all the operations, all the role specialization, all the howdo you coordinate handoffs from with a writer in one time zone to an editorand another time zone, especially in today's environment where everything's a synchronous like?How do you iron out all those little kings, because that's that's where theball gets dropped. Like one person, you might have a writer who's reallygood, or you might have a marketers really good. They have to handit off to someone three four time zones away, if not more, andthen that person has to hand it off to somebody else. How are youactually doing that to make sure this person's waking up and is ready to goand has everything they need and has their, you know, their stuff, completedby the person before them, without those those two people having to jumpon zoom every five minutes? I think that's the that's the challenge, fromlike blocking and tackling standpoint that a lot of companies are facing today because theyare trying to ramp up content and do all this stuff in the absence ofconventions and conferences and other things, but yet we're all forced to again bemore reliant on a synchronous communication. So we've talked about the importance of contentand how to approach it. I want to explore a few other areas,including building it be to be content team generating ideas and distribution? HOW SHOULDBE TO BE COMPANIES APPROACH CONTENT PRODUCTION? On one hand, they could usefreelancers, agencies or contractors, but if they want people who drink the proverbialcoolaid, many companies want inhouse writers. So where should be to be companiesstart when it comes to creating content? For sure? Yeah, I thinkit's important to realize that they all have their own like strengths and weaknesses.So there's no like, right or wrong at answer. Necessarily, as youmentioned, with drinking the cool aid, internal people are usually best for allthe intangibles. So they understand the unique point of view. They understand thedifferentiation and positioning of the product versus other ones in the space. They understandall that stuff. Intimately, their problem is usually output in production. Sointernal people usually get caught up with meetings...

...and slack and whatever proofreading someone else'spresentation like. They get pulled in all these different directions that you're not ableto publish a ton of stuff on the back of a lot of in houseriders unless you're spending a ton of money on it, because it's it canget the same thing expensive as you could imagine. So the the challenge isalways well, freelancers offer you that flexibility. You can ramp them up and down. If you want to do a big content push for three six monthsand then switch gears down the road. It's easy to kind of like buildthat team out, let run for a little bit and then ramp them downover time. You don't have to deal with the same you know, internalHR headaches and other things to like ramp people up and down. The problemwith freelancers is is usually getting everyone on the same page and making sure youhave consistency across whatever. You know, three, four, five, hundredand ten twenty people who are all external and have their own things and theirown lives and their own clients, and that's incredibly challenging because you you spenda ton of time that isn't always accounted for on project management, on editingon things that are like the the soft and ten angibles to get all thosepeople together. Agencies offer a different approach of like usually get skill sets youmight not have internally. So, for example, when someone hires our agency, they get strategy people, they get seo people, they get not justthe writers and editors but also designers, video people. Again, trying tohire all those roles externally or, excuse me, internally, would be supercosprohibitive and not always like realistic. Agencies tend to be more expensive on thesurface, but again, if you if you account for some of those things, like the extra manpower, so to speak, of management and everything internally, it becomes expensive. So I guess the point is, where are youat in terms of resources, in terms of internal team already? So doyou internally have the people in place to manage a team of writers? Ifnot, then you're probably better off going with something like an agency. Conversely, if your if your problem is more bottom of the funnel, not topof the funnel meeting, if your problem is more conversions and and doing thingsthat speak the language of the customer and creating case studies and other content aroundthat type of stuff, usually better with internal people, because it's easier toget them on board with that, as opposed to external agencies, which mightgive or freelancers was much give you the horsepower that's better suited to scaling outlike top of the funnel kind of content. If that makes sense, that's great, it's it's it's great advice, and I can tell you from personalexperience that finding good freelancers is a huge challenge. And then there's a lotof work that I find that goes into editing their copy because they just don'tknow the brand tone, the brand language and they just don't have their domainexpertise to really nail it. So there are pros and cons to every singleangle. But let's assume that you want to build an inhouse content team.Where do you start? What's the first move to make to get the ballrolling in the right direction? Like what type of person should you hire outof the gate? Yeah, definitely.

I try to urge role specialization earlyjust so you kind of get in that mindset. So, in other words, don't just hire. Don't just think you're going to hire like a couplewriters and then like let him go. You really need someone who's like acontent manager. Sometimes these people can can do multiple things. So sometimes acontent manager can also edit. What I what I don't like to see iswhen you try to make a good writer a content editor or manager, becauseit's right. It's almost like the Michael Scott problem of taking a good salespersonand making him a manager, like their skill sets are often don't overlap.So, in other words, a content managers really good and building out theseprocesses, building out a style guide to make sure here is how our brandvoy should look and sound and feel and all those things. Like I said, they can often edit. They could often also write, but again it'sit doesn't always go in the same direction where you're not always going to geta couple good writers who then have like their project manager had to, becausethat person is also going to be doing keyword research. They're also going tobe doing both like the qualitative brand voice and style, but also the thequantitative of like metrics and figuring out, okay, now, how we're goingto actually promote this thing to writers. Even, like you know, evenreally good writers don't always have that skill set. Really good writers thrive onIngenuity, on saying the same thing multiple different ways, and so they they'realmost like rewarded internally for for purposefully doing things differently each time, and that'slike the opposite of how you want like a content team to actually run.What are the different ways to assess the performance of your content team members?You know, what separates the good ones from everyone else? So you couldlook at the standard KPI's time on, say, Click throughs, on CTA'sthat kind of thing. I mean those are all very data driven, veryquantitative. But how do you assess? How do you balance quantitative and qualitativewhen it comes to content production, because of a big part of it iscreativity. Yep, thinking outside the box, approaching content from different angles so thatyour content is engaging from where you sit. What separates the good onesfrom everybody else? Yeah, definitely. It's it is hard, like you'resaying, because it's it's like a little ven diagram that you want. Soyou want you want someone who's a s something subject matter expert, especially ifyou're hiring them house. Otherwise I guess it's probably not worth the time orthe money to or a house unless there are subject matter expert in the spacealready. So that's a critical component, because what you don't want is yourcontent to sound hollow and generic and water down. You want there to benuance involved. You want that person to be able to consider like different complexfactors, especially the more like Beab or complex sales your product gets. Themore that's important, because your audience is tends to be more sophisticated. Yourbuyers, your customers, tend to be a lot more sophisticated and they're goingto see through that pretty quickly. So subject matter expertise is one but writingand style is the other one. So does is there a voice meaning,like does this person actually sound? Do...

...they write like they sound when they'respeaking? Because when I'm talking right now I sound very choppy and I soundespecially if you look at a podcast transcription and then you think you're just goingto publish that directly. Sometimes it doesn't work, as you know, becauseit just comes across as choppy. You we switch topics too much when wetalk. You want a little bit of that in the actual writing itself.So you don't want like super overly formulaic stuff. You don't want super formalizedwording and phrasing, even if you have a company culture that's very formal.You still want something that's relatable when you're reading it, because, again,someone's trying to read information, educational content, whatever, and they need to feelsome emotional engagement to that. They don't feel emotional emotional engagement to likea wikipedia page or something that's just kind of fact driven and dry and technical, you know. And then the other component, like you said, issome knowledge of a CEO. And so either if if the writer doesn't havethat already, that's where it's good to have some sort of content manager orsimilar WHO's able to help structure how the content should look. And so Ithink we're going to touch on like promotion and distribution in a second, butI think one of the important points to touch on here is that if youdon't structure content properly from the very beginning, you're only going to make your lifesuper difficult when it comes to promote it and to try and rank itdown the line. Meaning, if you're writing how to make iced coffee apiece of content, how to make set to make it really really basic howto make ice coffee, if you try to get like your product page toring for that, it's never going to work. So, in other words, the actual structure that content. It doesn't line up with search intent fromthe very beginning. So you're leading the writer down a bad path that,two years from now, is never going to help you rank for that termand that becomes an issue for the promotion aspect, you know, at thevery end. So that's the little Ben Diagram of like subject better expertise,writing, ability and kind of copywriting or voice or whatever you want to callit, like some some interesting and engaging way of actually getting the words outand then and then some sort of background or knowledge of like a solid SeoFoundation. That sounds like a classic infographic for creating a content marketing team.That resonates. I like that. I like the concept of illustrating what ittakes to create good content, because content is subjective, Yep, and itcan be it's quantitaven qualitative. So that's it's really good insight. I spenta lot of time on Linkedin, like a lot of people these days,I see a lot of posts about the challenges of coming up with ideas forcontent. You know, I spent many years as a reporter and and Iwas trained to see story angles from all kinds of different perspectives. You know, I understand that content marketing is a beast that needs to be continually fed. From where you sit, how do brands continually come up with content ideas? Yeah, let alone content that they're going to publish? I mean,what are some of the key processes or systems that need they need to havein place to make sure that the machine is fed and is always fed,because you have, if you rent at a content ideas, then you're deadin the water for sure. Yeah,...

...first, if you if you doit right, you should never run out of ideas. I struggle from theopposite problem, where I'm too many spreadsheets of like potential areas to go intothat I'll probably never get to. I think first and foremost, more marketersneed to work in. What I say work in, I mean an airquotes, work in customer support and the and I learned this like the hardwayearly on at a travel company where I was kind of on the front linesfor digital and social perspective and I was kind of forced to deal with likecustomer problems and inquiries and everything, and so I got good, or youknow, had to get good, at talking to customer service, customer supports, the operations and learning more and trying to figure out like just there areso many problems and issues that people run into without you even being aware ofit, and unless you are actually reading customer support emails or unless you're actuallyreading these problems firsthand, or you're reading your captera reviews and you or yourg two reviews and taking the good and the bad, unless you're actually andagain, that can even go to your sales team to unless you're actually intalking to customers or getting that feedback from the people who are talking to customers, like sales, like operations, like Customer Sport, you're not. You'renot really getting the full picture. You're getting a very narrow view of whoor what you think customers are. Yes, you should definitely also be doing thethings like jumping into your favorite keyword research tool and looking at adjacent spaces. All those like marketing tips and tactic that people love to talk about islike, Oh yeah, go to answer the Publiccom and type in a keywordand it'll show you all the related questions. Like those things are good, butyou should also just be looking at like what are customers of you know, actually trying to do with your product and what's holding them back and thereshould be no shortage of like potential topics idea that come from that. Thechallenge is always how do you make those types of topics that are very customercentric from a support or pain point arena link back to the SEO? Becauseagain, if we're going to the content and expense of or excusing, we'regoing to all the effort and expense of producing content and it and you're hiringsubject matter experts, the stuff is really expensive really quickly. So the onlyway it's worth it in the long run is if you do have that solidfoundation of Seo so you know it's going to it's going to produce results,not just tomorrow when you share it on Linkedin or tomorrow when you share itas a with your support team or on a Webinar, but like two threeyears from now to rank well too. So I think that's only the challenge, in my mind, is how do you how do you tie the twoworlds together of like all the potential keywords and topics you can go after bydoing all the classic things up searching around. Okay, well, my product is, you know whatever, best my products is crn product. So thereforeit has these features. Those are basic topics. From there it's like okay, well, how do people find this? It's going to be they're searching forcomparisons. So best crm product alternatives, sales first versus hub spot crm.Like what are all the Alt kind of more classic affiliate publishing? Andthen back out of from there, like...

...well, do you know as yoursales team dropping the ball because their email reply template suck? So email replytemplates become the keyword and then you just keep like going broader and broader andbroader again. How do you connect all that kind of classic keyword research orientedstuff with with the stuff that your sales team is coming up with, withthe stuff that your customer sport teams coming up with? Yeah, I thinkit's a it's a complicated and time consuming bouncing act between customer in sight andreviews and Seo, and I think personally, not a lot of marketers don't talkto their customers enough, they don't sit on sales calls, they don'tread the transcripts from customer success calls or customer service calls and they operate blind. And mean you can't solely depend on Seo for your content ideas, becausethen you're just delving into the data and you're ignoring the real world and realpeople. So there's so many variables when it comes to content marking and Ithink a lot of markers just focus on the content. The other area thatI want to talk to you about, and this is something that guy namedRoss Simmons advocates for all the time on Linkedin and twitter, is content distribution. It's one thing to publish content, it's another to make sure that enoughof the right people see it. In fact, I believe that one ofthe new and hot marketing jobs will be the head of content distribution. Whatare your thoughts about content distribution and the approach the BEDB companies need to taketo make sure their content gets seen and has the impact that they want?Yeah, definitely, I think it's I think it's hard and getting harder,to your point, because of all the noise. I think that's one ofthe challenges. Another challenges you have a lot of. You have a lotof people trying to do the same things. So like, if you have youheard of the the law of shitty click the rates, because the conceptfrom Andrew Chan, who works at Uber and a much rather like startups.So basically is this point was like, if you look at the Click theroughrate of banner ads, when banner ads first came out, it was amazing, like it was really good, and if you look at the click therate on banner ads today, it's awful. And the point and then can youcould draw that comparison across other things where, if you remember facebook marketing, like even ten fifteen years ago, you could like gate pages, soyou could like force people to like your page to then to them like getsome incentive, and then the organic reach and distribution was so high at thetime you could you could kill it. You could do so well just doingthe light getting game of like put a coupon or whatever behind a discount behindthe light gate or do a contest behind the light gate. You have tolike to enter and then share stuff on Linkedin and like, you know,a huge percentage of people who already like you actually see your your results.Again, contrast that today, no one sees your results unless they're paid.On linked or, excuse me, on Facebook, you've got to pretty muchlike pay to promote everything, which, again, it is good and bad. It's just the tactic of change, a little bit. But the pointis if once something starts working well and...

...everyone starts to doing it from adistribution standpoint, it often gets a lot harder, a lot more expensive orthe reach starts dropping off. And so one of the things again I liketo harp on is going back to our point earlier of don't target keywords,for instance, that you can't rank for in the short term. When you'redoing that initial keyword research and putting the content ideas together, you should knowhow you're already going to distribute it. So if I need, if I'mlooking at a competitive keyword and I want to rank for it and whatever,six months, twelve months and I look at okay, it has a hundredlinks, or the average competition, let's say, has a hundred quality linksto this individual piece of content, I better know how I'm going to getthose hundred plus links to this piece of content before I ever create it,because otherwise, again I'm just going to set myself up for failure. Sohow am I going to do that? Am I going to do? Isthere going to be related to a promotion? Is it going to be related toa product launch? I am I going to run a contest can Ido kind of do a big PR push? Can I we do guess post?CAN WE DO PODCASTS? Can we do can we do like paid,a paid campaign on Linkedin or facebook? Can we tie it in with webinars? Like what are all the potential tactics that we might already be doing orwe might already be good at? And then the other thing I like toreally focus on for distribution, especially for be tob companies, is with ourexample of link building. You see all these blog posts and say like ahundred and one link building tactics to whatever start this year. You don't needa hundred of one link building tactics, you need like two or three andyou need to do them really, really well. So don't you need tounderstand like what your organizations good at and stick to your strengths and you needto do it better than everyone else and at a bigger scale than everyone else. So you know, as a content company, we're really good at likea couple things and we're really good at like content in the B tob space. I'm not going to pick up tick tock or I'm not going to jumpon the latest Social Bandwagon because I know that I'm not well suited to thatand our company strengths aren't well suited to that. So don't, don't getshiny, you know, Tactic Syndrome. Don't, don't chase those wells becauseyou're not going to be able to do them as well or better than thepeople who are going to do them well. You need to kind of stick toyour strengths. Because of these issues like super a ton of competition,because of the the organic, you know, reach falling off. You can stillsee success with those channels in different places. You just need to beable to do it better than everyone else. And again that that goes back tomaybe your own internal team, your own internal structure and what you whatyour brand is known for and good at in this space. To final questions. One, what does wordable do and to how did you end up livingin Hawaii? Yeah, definitely. So wordable. I'll take the easy one. First, wordable. We were customer of wordable and we, I wad, an agency that does like three four hundred articles a month. So wecreate and published and promote like three four articles month. We found that wewere spending like, on average, thirty to sixteen minutes uploading, formatting optimizingan individual piece of content. Doing that...

...times three, four hundre articles amonth is very costly and time consuming, especially we consider like who on yourteam has to actually do that? Well, so what you often see is alot of teams, you know, if they do produce a lot ofcontent, it often just like sits somewhere in Google docs or, you know, whatever they end up writing. You have this huge lag and bottleneck betweencreating the content and editing it and getting reviewed and then actually getting it liveto hopefully, you know, start ranking and producing results for you. Sowordable moves content from Google Docs to a CMS basically, so it'll kind ofdo it in seconds. You can do it in bulk and then will alsostart applying a lot of the optonpage optanization that companies should be doing but don'talways, so compressing images, opening links in a new tab to keep breaderson site, being able to select the author and category and all that extra, all the extra stuff you usually have to do when you put a pieceof content into a content manage system again to like get it kind of publishedready. wordable will kind of automate all that that messy stuff for you.So that's what wordible does. Second question was Hawaii. So we we've beenvisiting here and traveling here for a while with my family and we've always lovedit, like most people who've been here, and we've always talked about trying tolive here and our trips get getting longer and longer and longer, andso finally decided to come out and just to try living here. We kindof bounced around different islands for a little bit to see where we want tolive and where we thought was a good place for our family and our youngkids and all that kind of stuff. And so, as you can imagine, it's pretty great. It's remote. Amazon take super long. That's athat's one bummer. You can't get things in a day or two, sothat's kind of one downside. There's not a lot of nightlife. It's prettyquiet, so you got to be comfortable at these things. But I thinkonce you once you know, once you find that sweet spot and kind ofcan get into it, then you realize it's pretty amazing place to to liveand I guess, as you mentioned off the top, as long as wewill need to get up at five o'clock in the morning to podcast views,that works as well. Yeah, definitely you could. I don't know ifyou if this is video, you can see like my fluorescent office lights aboutme. Some of them are just kicking on, because you gotta like ittake some all Ale to warm up. And Yeah, it's about it's whatfive hundred forty right now. I am so yeah, you gotta got toget comfortable with waking up in the middle of the night, but you can. You can get done early and when you're at by the beach at onePM, two PM, it's not bad. Life is good. Yeah, itwas good. Well, thanks for all the great insight, Brad.Where can people learn more about you? And wordable? Definitely go to wordable. Do I oh, is the best place. I'm on Linkedin at Ithink my my name is BS marketer because those are my initials, and alsomarketers are full of BS sometimes, so it's kind of puny. And then, and then, yeah, we also run and involved into agencies, acontent production agency called codeless and a link building company, Link Building, aPR company called you surup. So wordable DOE IO is usually the best placeto start for all that fun stuff. Thanks for listening to another episode ofmarketing spark. If you enjoyed the conversation,...

...leave a review, subscribe by Itunes, spotify or your favorite podcast APP and share via social media. Tolearn more about how I help bbbs ass companies as a fractional CMO for changingget buysor and coach, send an email to mark at marketing sparkcom. I'lltalk to you next time. I.

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