A Deep Dive into the World of B2B Content Production: Brad Smith

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

As more B2B brands embrace content marketing as the way to engage, educate, and connect with prospects and customers, it's becoming increasingly difficult to break through and stand out.

In this episode of Marketing Spark, Brad Smith, CEO with Wordable, offers in-depth insight into:

  • How companies should approach content marketing
  • The importance of focusing on keywords that can be ranked for in the short term.
  • How to build a content marketing team and how to assess its performance
  • How to never run out of content ideas
  • How to effectively distribution content once it's been published.

Forty five of the whatever, though exactly know it's like our us. Five minutes in the nearer alogey. Three. Okay, here, we got me in. Three, two, one. It's Mark Evans and you're listening to marketing spark. According to the popular adage, content is king. That may or not may not be true, but many BDB SAS companies, have enthusiastically embraced content. Over the past eighteen months. Content marketing took on more importance when conferences disappeared and many companies scrambled to not only create content, but create content that engaged, educated, encouraged and made an impact. As the CEO of wordable, Brad Smith has a front row seat in the world of content marketing, and it should be noted that his front row seat is located in Hawaii, which is a pretty sweet placed. Sorry, and it should be noted that his front row seat is located in Hawaii, which is a pretty sweet place to operate. Welcome to marketing spark, Brad. Be Your mark look a part of both. Let's start by talking about the content marketing landscape. Over the past eighteen months, as a content creator, it has been fascinating to see how many brands have jumped on the content bandwagons, some of them successfully and some of them appear to be going through the motions and creating content for the sake of content. What's your take on how the landscape has evolved since covid emerged in March? At Two Thousand and twenty? Yeah, definitely it's I would definitely agree with your point and if anything, it almost like things got accelerated. The trends, the underlying trends, were already there. I think they just were sped up and made even more intense. So you see things like huge publishers, for instance, doing affiliate content. So you see big websites getting better and and what that does is it kind of raises the bar. And so not only do you have like more competition for like your direct competition that everyone thinks about, you have more competition indirectly. So you're now ranking against Amazon or Forbes or whatever, even if you have nothing to do, you know, businesswise, with those people. You're competing in a sense of search engine, you know, rankings, the actual results on the page. Other issues to like your Google actively taking spots away through a few different ways. So one they're doing more. You paid listings on a searching the result page to they're doing instant answers. So what they're doing essentially is like scraping your content. If you look, if you search for, like, how to make an old fashion, you're going to see a recipe show up and it's going to be scraped from some website that's already ranking. Someone's going to get their answer, they're going to get their recipe and they don't have to actually click into the page to read whatever it is that's on that site. And so you know, if that, if that person's monetizing through ads or something else, than they're in trouble. Do you have all these kind of like issues that are all coming to a head and and what we're seeing as a greater divergence between like the you know, the halves...

...and the have knots, for lack of better expression, like the the amount of focus and attention going to like the first view positions on a page when you're trying to rank something is is becoming much greater. You might see more skewed landscape, whereas anything else that's not good enough or is just kind of mediocre or average. To your point, it's almost just getting it's just getting pumped out into the black hole that that isn't getting seen or clicked or shared or linked to or whatever. So it sounds like content marketing has become a more challenging landscape and I'm curious about what has surprised you. You know what separated companies that have thrived amid fierce competition for eyeballs. What are they doing and do you have any examples of brands that are doing content marketing well? That's a really good question. I definitely a few examples of companies doing it well. I think one thing that has surprised me is how much big websites are still able to leverage their brand and their domain authority to rank for things in categories that they might not have that much to do with, and so you see this a lot. Again, and going back to like a publishing example or affiliate spaces, just as a point of comparison, where you might have huge websites like a forms or someone else ranking for something like, you know, invoicing software reviews or something just completely kind of random, but you would you wouldn't think what everything to do with that, and they're they're starting to rank really well with relatively average content. So that's kind of like the bad news, I think, in a way where it's kind of like a trend that I don't love to see because again, I don't want to see poor content be rewarded that greatly. But but the good news is you do have a lot of like, you know, smaller, smaller in a sense of where they're starting, but smaller staff, companies being able to do content really well and go deeper. So if that example, if the Ford example, is they're going like broad but shallow, I think what you're saying today is a lot of really good companies being able to go really, really deep in there, you know, categories or in their spaces, and still do really well. Now, I'm not sure if this is a fair question, but what do you see as the keys to breaking through when everyone is pumping out content? Is it quality content, and I put quality in quotation marks because it's a very subjective kind of thing. Is it SEO? Does it depend on having the right strategic plan? It isn't. Isn't a matter of luck. I mean, what are some of the variables that that you see as critical when you're trying to, you know, merge? I'm made a content tsunami. Yeah, definitely. I think it's I like to think of it as a balance score card. So you have the brand and the website strength overall that, and you have like the strategy and the strategic kind of strategic viewpoint behind it, of like where're going and why. You have the...

...content itself, so how it's written, whether or not their subject matters experts included in that or not. Again, you can tell pretty quickly if something's kind of engineering watered down or if it's really interesting and nuance and kind of balanced and complex. Then you have just beyond the actual writing itself, you have things like, you know, multi media, so images, podcast, video. How is that being included in that? That you have the actual nerdy seo stuff, so everything from Topical Authority to the actual keywords of researching to the link building, link building in PR and distribution. So I think if you think about it, the good news is if you think about all this stuff, like how marketing and advertising and promotion used to be back in the S, it's pretty similar. So, like I just gave you an example distribution, what we're doing today isn't that different. It's just kind of like a new medium. I think the important point is figuring out how you get all the things to light up. So, if we're talking about how you distribute content, are you working? Are you PR teams working together with content teams, to have advertising teams working with content teams? Like those disconnects are often where things fall. But the better you can like align all those things typically, the greater success we see with like blush of the larger companies worth. Yeah, I think it's it's interesting that coordination and having a strategic plan is so important, because many companies look at content as simply creating content and then they forget about seo distribution, identifying and connecting with influencers. So there's so many variables that go into content marketing success that a lot of companies just don't take into account. I guess what I'm curious about who's doing content well, I mean really well. Is there content that you want to read because it's because it's interesting, your compelling and you can you can recommend or suggest one of your clients as an example of a company that really is standing out from the crowd. Yeah, that's a good question. I was going to say a load of question for sure, because I got to sit here and mention all of our work, right. But so we work with MONDAYCOM. I think they're doing an amazing job. I think one of the challenges they face is they their tool could work for almost any category, any like bb category. So we might be doing content on project management, but we might also be doing pro might also be doing content on agile software development, we might also be doing something completely different. I say, I think that's extremely challenging and it means you're doing not just quality content but high quantity to and that brings up a whole host of other issues like, well, how do you get super high quantity without letting the quality bar drop? And that's through a bunch of other, you know, intense things like operations and processes and role specialization. So kind of just brings up a whole slew of other issues. Where a lot of companies that do content well today, especially smaller ones, they have like a good writer or a couple good writers and they're heavily reliant on individuals and talents, which is a good thing. But I think for some of the larger companies, or like the hyper growth companies,...

...what you see is they're more reliant on like the machine and building out the machine in the factory, in the assembly line of the sel person works with the strategy person, who hands it off to the writer, who hands it off to the editor, who hands it off to the optimizer, hands the producer, and there's like this this this very detailed assembly line, very kind of like old school manufacturing mentality of operation. That I think is really important in today's environment and not enough marketers and marketing teams are strong in that area. That makes sense. So if you look at what Moneycom is doing, and I see their ads all the time, so it's hard to escape them. Yeah, are there two or three things that they've embrace that has helped their content marketing thrive? Yeah, definitely. I think again, it goes back to from the very beginning, to a very strong focus on like who's their customer and why? So, like who what segments convert the best? Who has the highest lifetime value as a segment, and and figuring and then backing that into what like key categories. For example, should we even be publishing in the very beginning, because they could be publishing on everything and anything like. How do we actually focus in narrow down from there? It's then figuring out, okay, well, how do we actually get keywords and spaces that we can win? And so this is something I like to like Harpon, but again it's kind of an old cliche. But like measure twice, cut once. In today's like competitive kind of surup environment, the outsize results. Let's say, if you look at click through rates on a searchage result page, let's say sixty, seventy eighty percent go to like the top three or four results. Right, it's not good enough to like to top out a position eight on a surf. You might as well like not even. It sounds good because you're on the first page, but you're probably getting like a sliver of any traffic, whereas if you can get up until like the top five, top for top three, it becomes heavily skewed where you're getting all a sudden fifty, sixty, seventy percent of the action. So if you're applying that to like a much broader content strategy where you are publishing in a high quantity, it's super, super important that you're making sure that you're publishing not just like on the biggest keywords in your space or the ones with the most commercial intent yes, those things are important, but they might take years to actually to rank for. So so what are we talking and why? Meaning like, let's actually create content that we know we can win and we know we can rank four within the next six months, because that's going to give us the biggest boost to then kind of stare step our way up up to that other competitive stuff. You know, I love that piece of advice because I've been working with a lot of bb SASS clients looking at how to leverage content marketing in it. And you're right. I mean you you want to win in particular keywords or phrases, because there's so much competition out there that it's going to take you forever to rank for the top keywords and that's just not a strategy that's going to produce our wine the short term. No, totally hinted added a little bit, but what do you see is the biggest stakes that Bab companies make when it comes to content marketing? I suspect the list could be fairly extensive. Definitely. So that's one that we...

...just touched on. Is Competing for the wrong things the wrong times. So, knowing that it's kind of a chicken and egg problem as an example. Word of bles really small. We just we just acquired it about a year ago. Traffic was trending down. I think we're at like Fivezero monthly visits when we acquired it. So super small. One of the first problems that we are facing is, okay, well, we can't go after the biggest keywords in our space right now. Long, long term we can, but it might take, you know, to three years realistically, did to rank for that stuff. So in the short term we do something else and we need to take a take a different approach and go after keywords we can rank for. And I think now we're up to like thirty, fortyzero a month in terms of monthly traffic. And it was just this whole stair step approach of okay, we're going to go after this this less competitive stuff first because we know we can win there and we're going to rank well for it. And once our website is bigger, once we have more links, once we have more content which we have more topical authorities there is, we can come back and rank for that competitive stuff. The other big one we touched on already too, which is operations. So I think marketers and marketers are marketers. Don't have an issue with creativity. That's what that's why we all do this, that's why we're all like in this in this field. They have an issue with processes and all the boring stuff, all the operations, all the role specialization, all the how do you coordinate handoffs from with a writer in one time zone to an editor and another time zone, especially in today's environment where everything's a synchronous like? How do you iron out all those little kings, because that's that's where the ball gets dropped. Like one person, you might have a writer who's really good, or you might have a marketers really good. They have to hand it off to someone three four time zones away, if not more, and then that person has to hand it off to somebody else. How are you actually doing that to make sure this person's waking up and is ready to go and has everything they need and has their, you know, their stuff, completed by the person before them, without those those two people having to jump on zoom every five minutes? I think that's the that's the challenge, from like blocking and tackling standpoint that a lot of companies are facing today because they are trying to ramp up content and do all this stuff in the absence of conventions and conferences and other things, but yet we're all forced to again be more reliant on a synchronous communication. So we've talked about the importance of content and how to approach it. I want to explore a few other areas, including building it be to be content team generating ideas and distribution? HOW SHOULD BE TO BE COMPANIES APPROACH CONTENT PRODUCTION? On one hand, they could use freelancers, agencies or contractors, but if they want people who drink the proverbial coolaid, many companies want inhouse writers. So where should be to be companies start when it comes to creating content? For sure? Yeah, I think it's important to realize that they all have their own like strengths and weaknesses. So there's no like, right or wrong at answer. Necessarily, as you mentioned, with drinking the cool aid, internal people are usually best for all the intangibles. So they understand the unique point of view. They understand the differentiation and positioning of the product versus other ones in the space. They understand all that stuff. Intimately, their problem is usually output in production. So internal people usually get caught up with meetings...

...and slack and whatever proofreading someone else's presentation like. They get pulled in all these different directions that you're not able to publish a ton of stuff on the back of a lot of in house riders unless you're spending a ton of money on it, because it's it can get the same thing expensive as you could imagine. So the the challenge is always well, freelancers offer you that flexibility. You can ramp them up and down. If you want to do a big content push for three six months and then switch gears down the road. It's easy to kind of like build that team out, let run for a little bit and then ramp them down over time. You don't have to deal with the same you know, internal HR headaches and other things to like ramp people up and down. The problem with freelancers is is usually getting everyone on the same page and making sure you have consistency across whatever. You know, three, four, five, hundred and ten twenty people who are all external and have their own things and their own lives and their own clients, and that's incredibly challenging because you you spend a ton of time that isn't always accounted for on project management, on editing on things that are like the the soft and ten angibles to get all those people together. Agencies offer a different approach of like usually get skill sets you might not have internally. So, for example, when someone hires our agency, they get strategy people, they get seo people, they get not just the writers and editors but also designers, video people. Again, trying to hire all those roles externally or, excuse me, internally, would be super cosprohibitive and not always like realistic. Agencies tend to be more expensive on the surface, but again, if you if you account for some of those things, like the extra manpower, so to speak, of management and everything internally, it becomes expensive. So I guess the point is, where are you at in terms of resources, in terms of internal team already? So do you internally have the people in place to manage a team of writers? If not, then you're probably better off going with something like an agency. Conversely, if your if your problem is more bottom of the funnel, not top of the funnel meeting, if your problem is more conversions and and doing things that speak the language of the customer and creating case studies and other content around that type of stuff, usually better with internal people, because it's easier to get them on board with that, as opposed to external agencies, which might give or freelancers was much give you the horsepower that's better suited to scaling out like top of the funnel kind of content. If that makes sense, that's great, it's it's it's great advice, and I can tell you from personal experience that finding good freelancers is a huge challenge. And then there's a lot of work that I find that goes into editing their copy because they just don't know the brand tone, the brand language and they just don't have their domain expertise to really nail it. So there are pros and cons to every single angle. But let's assume that you want to build an inhouse content team. Where do you start? What's the first move to make to get the ball rolling in the right direction? Like what type of person should you hire out of the gate? Yeah, definitely.

I try to urge role specialization early just so you kind of get in that mindset. So, in other words, don't just hire. Don't just think you're going to hire like a couple writers and then like let him go. You really need someone who's like a content manager. Sometimes these people can can do multiple things. So sometimes a content manager can also edit. What I what I don't like to see is when you try to make a good writer a content editor or manager, because it's right. It's almost like the Michael Scott problem of taking a good salesperson and making him a manager, like their skill sets are often don't overlap. So, in other words, a content managers really good and building out these processes, building out a style guide to make sure here is how our brand voy should look and sound and feel and all those things. Like I said, they can often edit. They could often also write, but again it's it doesn't always go in the same direction where you're not always going to get a couple good writers who then have like their project manager had to, because that person is also going to be doing keyword research. They're also going to be doing both like the qualitative brand voice and style, but also the the quantitative of like metrics and figuring out, okay, now, how we're going to actually promote this thing to writers. Even, like you know, even really good writers don't always have that skill set. Really good writers thrive on Ingenuity, on saying the same thing multiple different ways, and so they they're almost like rewarded internally for for purposefully doing things differently each time, and that's like the opposite of how you want like a content team to actually run. What are the different ways to assess the performance of your content team members? You know, what separates the good ones from everyone else? So you could look at the standard KPI's time on, say, Click throughs, on CTA's that kind of thing. I mean those are all very data driven, very quantitative. But how do you assess? How do you balance quantitative and qualitative when it comes to content production, because of a big part of it is creativity. Yep, thinking outside the box, approaching content from different angles so that your content is engaging from where you sit. What separates the good ones from everybody else? Yeah, definitely. It's it is hard, like you're saying, because it's it's like a little ven diagram that you want. So you want you want someone who's a s something subject matter expert, especially if you're hiring them house. Otherwise I guess it's probably not worth the time or the money to or a house unless there are subject matter expert in the space already. So that's a critical component, because what you don't want is your content to sound hollow and generic and water down. You want there to be nuance involved. You want that person to be able to consider like different complex factors, especially the more like Beab or complex sales your product gets. The more that's important, because your audience is tends to be more sophisticated. Your buyers, your customers, tend to be a lot more sophisticated and they're going to see through that pretty quickly. So subject matter expertise is one but writing and style is the other one. So does is there a voice meaning, like does this person actually sound? Do...

...they write like they sound when they're speaking? Because when I'm talking right now I sound very choppy and I sound especially if you look at a podcast transcription and then you think you're just going to publish that directly. Sometimes it doesn't work, as you know, because it just comes across as choppy. You we switch topics too much when we talk. You want a little bit of that in the actual writing itself. So you don't want like super overly formulaic stuff. You don't want super formalized wording and phrasing, even if you have a company culture that's very formal. You still want something that's relatable when you're reading it, because, again, someone's trying to read information, educational content, whatever, and they need to feel some emotional engagement to that. They don't feel emotional emotional engagement to like a wikipedia page or something that's just kind of fact driven and dry and technical, you know. And then the other component, like you said, is some knowledge of a CEO. And so either if if the writer doesn't have that already, that's where it's good to have some sort of content manager or similar WHO's able to help structure how the content should look. And so I think we're going to touch on like promotion and distribution in a second, but I think one of the important points to touch on here is that if you don't structure content properly from the very beginning, you're only going to make your life super difficult when it comes to promote it and to try and rank it down the line. Meaning, if you're writing how to make iced coffee a piece of content, how to make set to make it really really basic how to make ice coffee, if you try to get like your product page to ring for that, it's never going to work. So, in other words, the actual structure that content. It doesn't line up with search intent from the very beginning. So you're leading the writer down a bad path that, two years from now, is never going to help you rank for that term and that becomes an issue for the promotion aspect, you know, at the very end. So that's the little Ben Diagram of like subject better expertise, writing, ability and kind of copywriting or voice or whatever you want to call it, like some some interesting and engaging way of actually getting the words out and then and then some sort of background or knowledge of like a solid Seo Foundation. That sounds like a classic infographic for creating a content marketing team. That resonates. I like that. I like the concept of illustrating what it takes to create good content, because content is subjective, Yep, and it can be it's quantitaven qualitative. So that's it's really good insight. I spent a lot of time on Linkedin, like a lot of people these days, I see a lot of posts about the challenges of coming up with ideas for content. You know, I spent many years as a reporter and and I was trained to see story angles from all kinds of different perspectives. You know, I understand that content marketing is a beast that needs to be continually fed. From where you sit, how do brands continually come up with content ideas? Yeah, let alone content that they're going to publish? I mean, what are some of the key processes or systems that need they need to have in place to make sure that the machine is fed and is always fed, because you have, if you rent at a content ideas, then you're dead in the water for sure. Yeah,...

...first, if you if you do it right, you should never run out of ideas. I struggle from the opposite problem, where I'm too many spreadsheets of like potential areas to go into that I'll probably never get to. I think first and foremost, more marketers need to work in. What I say work in, I mean an air quotes, work in customer support and the and I learned this like the hardway early on at a travel company where I was kind of on the front lines for digital and social perspective and I was kind of forced to deal with like customer problems and inquiries and everything, and so I got good, or you know, had to get good, at talking to customer service, customer supports, the operations and learning more and trying to figure out like just there are so many problems and issues that people run into without you even being aware of it, and unless you are actually reading customer support emails or unless you're actually reading these problems firsthand, or you're reading your captera reviews and you or your g two reviews and taking the good and the bad, unless you're actually and again, that can even go to your sales team to unless you're actually in talking to customers or getting that feedback from the people who are talking to customers, like sales, like operations, like Customer Sport, you're not. You're not really getting the full picture. You're getting a very narrow view of who or what you think customers are. Yes, you should definitely also be doing the things like jumping into your favorite keyword research tool and looking at adjacent spaces. All those like marketing tips and tactic that people love to talk about is like, Oh yeah, go to answer the Publiccom and type in a keyword and it'll show you all the related questions. Like those things are good, but you should also just be looking at like what are customers of you know, actually trying to do with your product and what's holding them back and there should be no shortage of like potential topics idea that come from that. The challenge is always how do you make those types of topics that are very customer centric from a support or pain point arena link back to the SEO? Because again, if we're going to the content and expense of or excusing, we're going to all the effort and expense of producing content and it and you're hiring subject matter experts, the stuff is really expensive really quickly. So the only way it's worth it in the long run is if you do have that solid foundation of Seo so you know it's going to it's going to produce results, not just tomorrow when you share it on Linkedin or tomorrow when you share it as a with your support team or on a Webinar, but like two three years from now to rank well too. So I think that's only the challenge, in my mind, is how do you how do you tie the two worlds together of like all the potential keywords and topics you can go after by doing all the classic things up searching around. Okay, well, my product is, you know whatever, best my products is crn product. So therefore it has these features. Those are basic topics. From there it's like okay, well, how do people find this? It's going to be they're searching for comparisons. So best crm product alternatives, sales first versus hub spot crm. Like what are all the Alt kind of more classic affiliate publishing? And then back out of from there, like...

...well, do you know as your sales team dropping the ball because their email reply template suck? So email reply templates become the keyword and then you just keep like going broader and broader and broader again. How do you connect all that kind of classic keyword research oriented stuff with with the stuff that your sales team is coming up with, with the stuff that your customer sport teams coming up with? Yeah, I think it's a it's a complicated and time consuming bouncing act between customer in sight and reviews and Seo, and I think personally, not a lot of marketers don't talk to their customers enough, they don't sit on sales calls, they don't read the transcripts from customer success calls or customer service calls and they operate blind. And mean you can't solely depend on Seo for your content ideas, because then you're just delving into the data and you're ignoring the real world and real people. So there's so many variables when it comes to content marking and I think a lot of markers just focus on the content. The other area that I want to talk to you about, and this is something that guy named Ross Simmons advocates for all the time on Linkedin and twitter, is content distribution. It's one thing to publish content, it's another to make sure that enough of the right people see it. In fact, I believe that one of the new and hot marketing jobs will be the head of content distribution. What are your thoughts about content distribution and the approach the BEDB companies need to take to make sure their content gets seen and has the impact that they want? Yeah, definitely, I think it's I think it's hard and getting harder, to your point, because of all the noise. I think that's one of the challenges. Another challenges you have a lot of. You have a lot of people trying to do the same things. So like, if you have you heard of the the law of shitty click the rates, because the concept from Andrew Chan, who works at Uber and a much rather like startups. So basically is this point was like, if you look at the Click therough rate of banner ads, when banner ads first came out, it was amazing, like it was really good, and if you look at the click the rate on banner ads today, it's awful. And the point and then can you could draw that comparison across other things where, if you remember facebook marketing, like even ten fifteen years ago, you could like gate pages, so you could like force people to like your page to then to them like get some incentive, and then the organic reach and distribution was so high at the time you could you could kill it. You could do so well just doing the light getting game of like put a coupon or whatever behind a discount behind the light gate or do a contest behind the light gate. You have to like to enter and then share stuff on Linkedin and like, you know, a huge percentage of people who already like you actually see your your results. Again, contrast that today, no one sees your results unless they're paid. On linked or, excuse me, on Facebook, you've got to pretty much like pay to promote everything, which, again, it is good and bad. It's just the tactic of change, a little bit. But the point is if once something starts working well and...

...everyone starts to doing it from a distribution standpoint, it often gets a lot harder, a lot more expensive or the reach starts dropping off. And so one of the things again I like to harp on is going back to our point earlier of don't target keywords, for instance, that you can't rank for in the short term. When you're doing that initial keyword research and putting the content ideas together, you should know how you're already going to distribute it. So if I need, if I'm looking at a competitive keyword and I want to rank for it and whatever, six months, twelve months and I look at okay, it has a hundred links, or the average competition, let's say, has a hundred quality links to this individual piece of content, I better know how I'm going to get those hundred plus links to this piece of content before I ever create it, because otherwise, again I'm just going to set myself up for failure. So how am I going to do that? Am I going to do? Is there going to be related to a promotion? Is it going to be related to a product launch? I am I going to run a contest can I do kind of do a big PR push? Can I we do guess post? CAN WE DO PODCASTS? Can we do can we do like paid, a paid campaign on Linkedin or facebook? Can we tie it in with webinars? Like what are all the potential tactics that we might already be doing or we might already be good at? And then the other thing I like to really focus on for distribution, especially for be tob companies, is with our example of link building. You see all these blog posts and say like a hundred and one link building tactics to whatever start this year. You don't need a hundred of one link building tactics, you need like two or three and you need to do them really, really well. So don't you need to understand like what your organizations good at and stick to your strengths and you need to do it better than everyone else and at a bigger scale than everyone else. So you know, as a content company, we're really good at like a couple things and we're really good at like content in the B tob space. I'm not going to pick up tick tock or I'm not going to jump on the latest Social Bandwagon because I know that I'm not well suited to that and our company strengths aren't well suited to that. So don't, don't get shiny, you know, Tactic Syndrome. Don't, don't chase those wells because you're not going to be able to do them as well or better than the people who are going to do them well. You need to kind of stick to your strengths. Because of these issues like super a ton of competition, because of the the organic, you know, reach falling off. You can still see success with those channels in different places. You just need to be able to do it better than everyone else. And again that that goes back to maybe your own internal team, your own internal structure and what you what your brand is known for and good at in this space. To final questions. One, what does wordable do and to how did you end up living in Hawaii? Yeah, definitely. So wordable. I'll take the easy one. First, wordable. We were customer of wordable and we, I wad, an agency that does like three four hundred articles a month. So we create and published and promote like three four articles month. We found that we were spending like, on average, thirty to sixteen minutes uploading, formatting optimizing an individual piece of content. Doing that...

...times three, four hundre articles a month is very costly and time consuming, especially we consider like who on your team has to actually do that? Well, so what you often see is a lot of teams, you know, if they do produce a lot of content, it often just like sits somewhere in Google docs or, you know, whatever they end up writing. You have this huge lag and bottleneck between creating the content and editing it and getting reviewed and then actually getting it live to hopefully, you know, start ranking and producing results for you. So wordable moves content from Google Docs to a CMS basically, so it'll kind of do it in seconds. You can do it in bulk and then will also start applying a lot of the optonpage optanization that companies should be doing but don't always, so compressing images, opening links in a new tab to keep breaders on site, being able to select the author and category and all that extra, all the extra stuff you usually have to do when you put a piece of content into a content manage system again to like get it kind of published ready. wordable will kind of automate all that that messy stuff for you. So that's what wordible does. Second question was Hawaii. So we we've been visiting here and traveling here for a while with my family and we've always loved it, like most people who've been here, and we've always talked about trying to live here and our trips get getting longer and longer and longer, and so finally decided to come out and just to try living here. We kind of bounced around different islands for a little bit to see where we want to live and where we thought was a good place for our family and our young kids and all that kind of stuff. And so, as you can imagine, it's pretty great. It's remote. Amazon take super long. That's a that's one bummer. You can't get things in a day or two, so that's kind of one downside. There's not a lot of nightlife. It's pretty quiet, so you got to be comfortable at these things. But I think once you once you know, once you find that sweet spot and kind of can get into it, then you realize it's pretty amazing place to to live and I guess, as you mentioned off the top, as long as we will need to get up at five o'clock in the morning to podcast views, that works as well. Yeah, definitely you could. I don't know if you if this is video, you can see like my fluorescent office lights about me. Some of them are just kicking on, because you gotta like it take some all Ale to warm up. And Yeah, it's about it's what five hundred forty right now. I am so yeah, you gotta got to get comfortable with waking up in the middle of the night, but you can. You can get done early and when you're at by the beach at one PM, two PM, it's not bad. Life is good. Yeah, it was good. Well, thanks for all the great insight, Brad. Where can people learn more about you? And wordable? Definitely go to wordable. Do I oh, is the best place. I'm on Linkedin at I think my my name is BS marketer because those are my initials, and also marketers are full of BS sometimes, so it's kind of puny. And then, and then, yeah, we also run and involved into agencies, a content production agency called codeless and a link building company, Link Building, a PR company called you surup. So wordable DOE IO is usually the best place to start for all that fun stuff. Thanks for listening to another episode of marketing spark. If you enjoyed the conversation,...

...leave a review, subscribe by Itunes, spotify or your favorite podcast APP and share via social media. To learn more about how I help bbbs ass companies as a fractional CMO for changing get buysor and coach, send an email to mark at marketing sparkcom. I'll talk to you next time. I.

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