Diving in the Fascination with Personal Brand Branding - DP Knudten

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

When did building a personal brand become so important?

Does everyone need a personal brand?

DP Knudten has some great insight into why a personal brand is a key part of how to operate professionally and personally.

He looks at the keys to success and the mistakes made by people along the way. 

As well, DP talks about his Non-Fiction Brand approach to personal branding.

It's Mark Evans and you're listening tomarketing par. When did a personal brand become soimportant. Why does it matter and how do you build a personal brand franchereneur is looking to break through and break out. Strong personal brand o musthave a building. A personal brand requires acombination of park, work, creativity, energy and strategy, and it can't bebuilt overnight a mid to see of people talking about personal brandy, DPcanudo stands out his non fiction, brand philosophy, helped entrepreneursdiscover and communicate the completely true and completely euban welcome tomarketing park. Oh thank you so much for having me mark. So, let's start with a softballquestion, because it's an obvious question that I need to ask- and it'sprobably one with a multifaceted answer: what's your definition to personalbrandon? No, it's a really good question, because so so many peoplethat are talking about personal branding are not talking about personalbranding, they're talking about becoming an instagram influencer orhaving a brands, come to me and wear their clothing, and that gets my fansand all that stuff to buy the stuff. influencers are a subset of personalbrands, but personal branding is much much bigger and I always refer back tothe very first time I ever heard that phrase personal branding or personalbrands, and that is in Tom Peters, one thousand nine hundred and ninety sevenarticle in Fast Company magazine called the brand called you. I mean literallygo to fast companyon search for the brand called you and read that article,because that is the that is the Rosetta stone of personal branding and it's notabout being an influencer. It's not about wearing a bikini and having yourwind blowing in the in the air on a beach in belies. It's not any of thatstuff. It comes down to what Tom Thought was the benefit of packagingyourself and using the same techniques that havebeen time, tested and proven of consumer packaged goods, meaning youdon't. For example, let's take a consumer package goods good thateverybody knows weedies the breakfast cereal right. It is a weet flake ofsome sort. I don't know how it's made. I don't know what it is, but I do knowthis. Weedie's is the breakfast of champions. It comes in an orange boxthat I can see from a cross an entire supermarket and if I'm in the market tobuy weedies, I look for that. I grab it and I go because in my mind, weediesare going to make me perform better. Why? Because they have created a brand.That's all based on that concept, which is we're not some sweet candy like corn,flake or wheat flake. We are a performance, serious adult orientedwheat flake, I'm talking about wheat flakes here, we're talking commodities,and yet this commodity is an incredibly high performing brand. So Tom Petersbasically stipulated that everything Weedie's did you need to do foryourself. You need to package yourself, and I saw that article. I stillremember where I was when I read that article in one thousand, nine hundredand ninety seven and I've been thinking about it ever since, and finally, I'vecome up with my take on it and put it into a book which you mentioned: NonFiction brand discover craft and communicate the completely truecompletely you brand. You already are, which is kind of my marketing way ofsaying. Do you see how packaged book title is that enables you mark to introduce mein a way that gets people going huh? What's he got tosay, because that's kind of interesting...

...and by the way non fiction brand thatimplies that there is such a thing as fictional branding? Is there why? Yes,there is see how a conversation has started all based on the fact that Ipackaged my philosophy, gave it a title: That's very similar to wheaties orfruit loops and then made it a product that people want to know more about,and consequently me so personal branding is about packaging, who youare what you do and how you do it in a way that other people can understand itprefer it share. It evangelize become your unpaid sales force because theyknow exactly how to introduce you based on who you are what you do and how youdo it right. It sounds like a lot of the work that I do with BB SAScompanies when it comes to positioning and messaging yes same Fu, basics rightwere establishing a personal brand or corporate brand. In that case, so I cansee you know the similarities and how you would approach brand building, bothfrom a personal perspective and corporately yeah. Well, exactly okay,so both of US share a deep marketing background in I understand that youcame from the journalism side of stuff and now are in the marketing space. Icame from the theatrical side if you will, because my degrees in theatre ofall things, but I discovered that I could write well and that people wouldpay me well. Does that make me a writer? Is That my personal brand? It influences my personal brand, butit's not at the core of who I am like. If I get down to the first principalDNA level of who I am the first word, I'm going to throw out, there iscreative. I always have to be re creative, whether I'm writing songsthat no one listens to in my basement studio or, if I'm presenting to aclient, I'm always creative, entertaining and fun. You know stufflike this that creativity affects every single thing I do now. Writing is atool I use to express my creativity and it also provides a handy what I wouldcall brandl a brand handle for other people to understand. So if they sayhey that de Econe Guy, what's he do well he's a writer and he's prettyfunny or he's really touching, or he understood our difficult concept anddistilled it down into nuggets of truth that make it very easy us very easy forus to go to market so again, you're talking about working with SASScompanies right. So software is the service. You got to convince me becauseI've been buying box software for thirty years. Tell me why I should buy, spend fifteendollars a month for your service and, in my mind, I'm doing thee. Well, let'ssee if I bought that for ninety dollars, that converts to how many months andall that stuff and I'm, if I'm doing that conversation that calculationyou've lost me. But if you're talking about the benefits that I can get fromyour service as software, then we can have a conversation becauseit, if you're talking to me about what I want, which are the benefits, not thefeatures we can talk about features on our third fourth fifth date. Butbranding is about getting that first date and then beginning a conversation thatcreates a relationship and that relationship creates a lifetime oftransactions right. I guess what fascinates me about personal brandingthese days is that it seems to be everywhere. I spent a lot of time onLinkedin and there is post after post about the importance of personalbranding how to do it. I do wonder why there is so much fascination andpersonal brandon, because I suspect it's been around for a long time andpeople have had personal brands. For you know, hundreds of years and batonhad a personal brand, but I am curious about why it's become such a hotcommodity. Is it a growth industry? So...

...a lot of people have gravitated tobeing gurus and consultants. Is it a result of the volatile economicconditions in which we live, or is there something else? Well, I think it's a combination of allthose things. You know the the idea, as I said earlier, Tom Peters kind ofthrew it out ter, one thousand nine hundred and ninety seven. It's had alot of time to percolate through the culture, but a big thing that has happened is-and I don't think a lot of people are consciously aware of this, but there isa fear of commoditization meaning if I'm a writer, I'm one of men, if I'm not known for anything, I'm justa writer, that's easily replaced for someone who's either cheaper, younger,faster, whatever you perceive them to be, and I have less value to you and you know this from branding. Youhave basically in my world in the way. I think there are two positions in themarket: Commodity or brand commodities are purchased for the lowest possibleprice, but brands command a premium. Now. All I have todo is is mention one company and you'll understand what I mean apple, I'm ahuge appy of Ficino and by the way I own apple stock, full disclosure,because I love that company. I started out on computers with a green screen,with an a prompt where I had to type in Park Dot exe to park the heads on myhard drive, I, which I installed and it was a whopping twenty megabyte harddrive. I have photos on my phone right now that are bigger than that entiretire. Hard drive capacities was so I'm not afraid of tearing stuff apart. ButI've reached the point in my life, where I value the apple, it just works.I value you, the Apple User Experience Focus, I love the design, aestheticthat they create. I don't love everything they do, but they are morealigned with what I choose to align with. Meanwhile, I know people my likemy brother happens to have more of an engineering mindset, and so he was allabout well, why are you paying eight hundred dollars for a phone that hastwo hundred dollars worth of components in it, and I said because it just works.It just works with my computers, which are all apple. It works with everythingit just works. I don't have to go into a confit, got SIS phile ever again inmy life right. So that's a value to me and by the way I the consumer, get todetermine what is valuable right apple has made it very easy for me toselect them by being very clear in what their brand is, and they are a premiumcommodity, in some cases, a super premium commodity. My macbook pro,which cost two thousand dollars, is, if you're an engineer the same as aDell laptop that cause eight hundred dollars, to which I say, O contrairey.They are not the same thing at all. Why, for all the reasons I just listed, no,what you're saying is what you're saying is that that a personal brand isimportant or even necessary. If you are going to be, if you want to positionyourself as more than just a low cost, O commodity yeah you have to because Ilook obviously, if you're listening to this podcast, you don't know this, butI have this nice, salt and peppery gray beer. I've been around this earth forquite a while and twice in my career. I was hit with the what I like to callyour ex years. You're experienced your expert, you're, expensive and thereforeexpendable and anyone who's reached. A certain age knows that if you lose aclient, you look at the spreadsheet of how many people are getting paid. Whatand you look for the guy at the top and say we can have five of those for oneof him. Let's get rid of him, and that happened to me twice because Iwas in an anonymous commodity, not necessarily to the the people. I workedwith directly whether they were creatives in my creative group or withclients, but in general, is it's easier...

...to get keep five of those lower costpeople than keep one right and the other truism is: If you don't own it,it's not yours, they can let you go any time for anyreason and again, when you reach a certain age, that's another ex year's thing. It'slike you know what advertising marketing is a young man's game and ifyou have not distinguished yourself in any way, my perception is that a twenty eightyear old copywriter is as good or better than a fifty five year oldcopywriter. Why because their commodities? If, however, I hadpersonally branded myself throughout my career as an absolute expert in B to beSass companies and we had met- and you knew who I was,what I'd do and how I do it, I would have a career as long as I wanted it to go, and I cando things like I'm doing now, which is speaking at conferences and stuff likethat, because people seek out the experts in those ex years. You know-and I like to call these years also the Yoda Years Yoda was a light, Saberswing and Jedi for a lot of years until he decided you know what I'm going tospend the rest of my life in my comfy little swamp on Digma and you all youLuke Sky, walkers out there you come to me when you want to learn really how todo this. I can do that now, because I have been actively personally brandingmyself for the past. I would say seven years, seven to ten years. I guess thequestion- and this is a bit of a provocative question, because you spenda lot of time helping clients develop their own personal brands, but is a personal brand necessary intoday's modern business world. I mean what, if you're Super SmartEntrepreneur, you're, not a Jeff, besos or an Adam Newman or any of those highflying entrepreneurs, and you want to you like to operate in the in theshadows, because you're focused on the business you're focused on doing thebest job possible and you don't care about a personal brand. You don't careabout being on stage, you don't care about media coverage, you just want todo the job are those type of entrepreneurs makinga mistake and our people in general, who don't build a personal brand,making a mistake. The quick answer to your question isconsider your audience and I don't mean a wide vast broadcast audience. Everysingle person on this earth has a niche audience that they want to be somebodyto or within you know, a community. So let's take the smallest kind ofcommunities possible or the most I like to use this example just because it'sso extreme, but it really. I illustrates to the concept there issomebody, and I don't know who they are. So don't ask me that question, but I am sure there was some one on theface of this earth. That is the absolute one hundred percent recognizedexpert on civil war buttons, and they know what button was worn bywhat unit. At what battle? And, Oh you know your your reenactment uniform isin incorrect because you've got the wrong buttons and stuff like that, andI just know that in that very small, again picture this ven diagram, theentire world, there's a tiny little circle in there about people who give acrap about civil war buttons. But there is one person who is notable and ownsthe expert levelness of that small niche. You don't have to be hangingwith Cardassian s. You don't have to be going up on blue origin with Jeff Bezosyou, but you do want to be known within...

...what you do as an expert. How do you become anexpert you could say this is everything aboutme? Twenty four, seven, I'm sharing what I ate. You know I'm having a badday today. You can do all that stuff and you'd be falling into theinfluencers trap of everything I say is important. It's not! If you are apersonal brand, you have to practice what I call selective authenticity,which is, if truth be told, I consider politics, a blood sport and it's myfavorite type of sporting event. So I follow politics very very closely anddeeply, and yet I maintain my let's call it. You can't really know for sure youprobably think I'm one party or one blue or red, whichever, like you, neverreally know, because I don't rub your face in it. Why I in our culture rightnow, were I to go stridently one way or the other? I would lose. Perhaps fortyfive percent of my potential sales or engagement audience right. So Iselectively am authentic by sharing that which I care to share. That isillustrative of my core concepts, which I like to call the key three. My keythree three words concepts are phrases. That sum you up. My key three arecreative. We already talked about that collaborative I work with other people,even when I'm working alone, I have to work with you to get the input tolisten, deeply to then go away and do my writer stuff and then I come backand collaborate with you again to calibrate that and make it great andI've realized early on. I'm not a poet that exists up in a garret writingtheir own vision. On paper, I have to work with other people, socollaboration is deeply part of who I am and what I do right. The third word-and this was hard for me to understand until I talked to enough trustedindividuals, and they said you know what people don't always like what youhave to say, but you always make them think, and I went that's my value andthat's true so taking that value and coming up with the word that best fitsit. The word is provocative, so creative collaborative provocative Ihave got to provoke. You know I don't go out of my way to slap you in theface and call you an idiot to provoke you, but I do try to bring you conceptsthat make you think and say: Oh, we could never do that. Oh No, we couldwait a minute we could. Maybe we could do that because, as a creativecollaborator, I only bring you value when I give you something you couldn'tdo yourself well get into your philosophy and approach when it comesto personal branding. But I did want to ask you about some of the the mistakesthat people make when they're trying to build a personal brand, because there'sno lack of advice and guidance out there and there's this feeling that Ineed to build a personal brand. If I don't want to be a commodity, I need tostand out somehow. But what do you see in terms of how people perbole nalbrands and you go man? I wish they hadn't done that? Well, I can point to somebody that Ithink everybody probably is aware of and that Gary Vaner Chuck you know- andI call it I think of it as Gary v Syndrome. I love Gary Vainer Chuck forwho he is not all the time, because he's he's he's pretty spicy a lot andhe's a little bit too spicy for my taste a lot of the time, but I love thefact that he is, I think, absolutely authentically Gary Vaneck and Ifollowed him all the way since his first wine library video on Youtube in how Iwant to say, like two thousand and six, maybe two thousand and five somethinglike that and I've watched him grow huge. You know he drops F bombshe's inhis S. I think now, but he still...

...dresses. Like he's a skater boy, youknow all this stuff and to me, yeah, that's Garv, he's being authentic. Thebig mistake to answer your question. The big mistake is especially a lot ofyoung males. They think they've got to ape Gary V's style, you know and theylike the fact that he can drop of bombs. You know I want to be that kind of inyour face: F bomb, dropping guy and, and so whatthey do. Is they get in front of Lamborghini that has fat stacks of cash?On it and they and they stop start posting stuff like ten ways to get to a hundred or a sixfigure income fast. You know, and they all do the same stuff. They areparroting. They are literally a parody of what Gary Vaner Chuck does so welland again, I want to stress this. I think Gary Vaner Chuck is one hundredpercent completely true to who he is as a person and he dials it up volume wise,but it's still the same song. You know it's like a CDC is still loud, even ifat very low levels, but the second you amplify it. It gets. You know, earbleeding y loud, Gary Vaner Chuck can do that, but he's also starting to showa little bit more selective authenticity, because he was theinsurgent leader up in the hills, with gorilla fighters now with vainer mediaand all the other stuff he's doing he's kind of main stream, so he's startingan if you've ever seen him. I saw him once on the Steve Harvey Show when thatwas on Steve, Harvey the great comedian and there he meets Garyville on thatepisode and Gary Vener Chuck was, let's call it if he's normally ateleven. He was at three, you know in terms of volume and I'm like who isthis guy, that's gnoten or check, and yet he his volume or what I would say,the song he was singing, was so fresh and exciting to Steve Harvey that atthe end of the interview he just turned to him very honestly and said: I think you and I have got to do somework together right and you know that here's Steve Harvey this big, you knowhe's got a universe of entertainment that go that's going on and oneinterview with someone who is completely true to themselves what theydo and how they do. It gets the attention of this guy and gets them tothe point where they say, let's figure out something to collaborate on. So Ithink what you're saying is be true to yourself. Yeah present yourself, sort of what you see is what you get.Don't. Try to posture to position yourself in a way that you think theworld should see you but operate the way that you operate and people willeither rally around you and your brand or not, but that's okay, because atleast you'll be distinct in the market place. Well, for example, Mark I'mlooking at your website the about page. It says about marketing leadership forB TO BE SASS companies. You know what that doesn't say fastfashion. You know what it doesn't save quick serve. Restaurants, you know whatit doesn't say: Petroleum Stations, cigarettes, tobacco. You know any ofthat stuff, it's very clear that you are not for for ninety percent, maybeninety five, maybe ninety eight percent of the things that are sold on thisearth. You don't want to touch. Why is that? Because I'm guessing- andI'm just meeting you for the first time but based on the personal brand you'vepresented to me, here's what I'm getting from the personal brand you'representing you're a deeper, more thoughtful individual you've got abackground in journalism which gives you a reporter's nose for news and bythe way, in the case of marketing, a...

...reporter's nose for news means thatyou've got a nose for the most important things, not every fact, butthe most important ones. Because again, this is so much of what we do. I oftenrefer to it as dating so much of what we do is merely a first date, which iswhat's the goal of our first date to get a second like they a right. Youknow, and the first date is a nice smile and I contact from across theroom that gets you to cross the room and say hi. What's your name, you've done that to just about any BTobe SASS company out there? Who may have looked you up on Google? Now Idon't know what else you're doing when it comes to social media or how you're?Extending your personal brand, but let's say that you do periodic post onlinked in why facebook has no time for you and you have no time for it. I'mguessing, however, linked in where people dobusiness is a good place for you not necessarily to go hard on sales, butmaybe a little bit of thought leadership. Maybe a little bit ofcuration of Hey. Did you guys see this great article? Did you see thiswonderful Ted talk that relates to something that's going on, whatever youare demonstrating and that's the key thing, the word demonstration you're,not just telling people you're demonstrating who you are, what you doand how you do it by what you do, how you do it and all that stuff? But I didI don't want to talk about me and personal brand new, but but there was apost on link din recently about consciously building a personal brandversus subconsciously. In my own case, I don't think I say to myself everysingle day I got to work on building my personal brand. I got to do somethingthat will make we hance it or make it or amplify it. I just do what I do. Ihave a focus which is marketing for B TOB SASS companies, I'm active onlinked in twitter. I have a podcast and I just do my thing because I'mpassionate about it, I'm interested in and I'm curious in it. I am wonderingwhether that's just the way that good personal branding works as you're, notthinking about it, you're just living it every day. Well, it is, but I also.I also think that it doesn't hurt to say that you know what I'm going to do,something just to maybe fifteen minutes a day to focus onmy personal brand in one way or another, the same way that people go to the gymbecause, let's face it, you don't have to go to the gym. If you eat well andyou walk your dog and you go on the occasional bike ride. But if you wantto perform at a higher level, you're going to go to a gym and you're goingto work out and anyone who's ever gone to the gym. The first day you know, isa very hard day. The next day gets a little better, the third day, you'redoing better and you're lifting heavier weights, you're doing more cardioyou're doing whatever you do right. It gets easier when you do it every day.So all I'm suggesting is is that you go to the gym every day for even a littlebit of time, because here's the reality of it and when I go to the gym thehardest thing about going to the gym is just getting in the car and driving tothe gym right once I'm there and I walk in- and I say I'm only going to do.Fifteen minutes I'll end up doing an hour and a half. Why? Because I'mfeeling better the the entire time, I'm doing it, and you know there are somedays where the best I can do is just drive the car to the gym, walk in, say,Hi to the front desk and then turn around and walk out. But at least I made the effort so andmark you're doing all the right stuff, the you know the the king of contentwhen it comes to personal branding, I think, is a podcast because right itputs your ears or your ideas and your voice and your presence and yourpersonality in people's heads literally...

...it's- and we can talk for days aboutwhy podcasting is an incredible unlock for personal branding. But you know Iagree with what you said. I I think the key thing is that you make it a littlebit more conscious, Rita. You can say. I only have fifteen minutes before thenext phone call. Well, guess what fifteen minutes that's enough time togo to linked in look at the key people. I want to connect with see that theyhave a nice post, react to it and by the way, the R I have a whole techniqueon. I call comment marketing. How do you use comments to build your personalbrand, and I do want to share this with your listeners if they're interested,they can go on non fiction, brandom gift to download three PDFs that canget. You started on your nonfiction brand personal branding journey, andbut if you have that fifteen minutes it could be wasting time looking atticktack or whatever, or it could be going to linkedin. Finding Mark'scomment that he put or post commenting on it, beginning a conversation withmark so that, ultimately you build a relationship. I becomes a conscious thing. You do thesame way going to the gym is about consciously being in better shape healthier. You know extending your long, youryouth, whatever so we're half hour into our conversation, and we even haven'teven talked about your non fiction, brand philosophy towards or approach ormethodology towards personal branding. So let's get into that. How does itwork? How did you develop it? How is it different, providing with the nitygritty of your approach to personal branding versus all the other peoplewho are focused on personal brand in these days? Okay? Well, the first thingis, anyone is doing. Branding right is doing the same stuff. There is no secetsauce. There is just expert practice and disciplined practice. So when I say non fiction brand, let metell you the very quickly the story about that. I was a young copywriter atMeccan Erickson in Atlanta Georgia working on Coca Cola. I would alwayshave my butt handed to me when I would go present. Concepts and they'd beat meup on three words: authenticity, refreshment and sociability. That's thekey three of COCO. It was when I worked on them. Everything had to communicateauthenticity, refreshment and sociability. What does that mean? Icould spend two hours talking about that, so I'm going to skip that exceptto go on to say one day I got a creative brief that said, write somestuff and again a creative brief. Is You got to tell the writer what you'rewriting like a TV spot, an outdoor board, a brochure a Web page? What arewe doing? It's a Web page? What do you want to say to for one this week? Onlyokay supplies are limited. These are copy points. I need copy points. Why, when I got that creative brief thatsaid, Rightso e stuff, I walked into the account manager's office and I saidDude. What is this? I'm not a fiction writer and what I was trying to say tohim was. I can't make up stuff. You at least have to tell me that it's afourth of July spetial or something give me something dude. You knowbecause I'm not writing fiction. Well, we dealt with the situation, but I keptit in my mind. He kept going around in my head, I'm not a fiction writer, andthat doesn't mean I can't ride fiction that no one wants to read, because Ican believe me, but I kept thinking well, I'm not a fiction writer when itcomes to advertising and marketing. Why I have to tell the truth that doesn'tmean I'm not afraid to buff things up to a high gloss, but there has to besome truth involved. For example, if I worked on a coke ad and said Coke helps,you lose weight. That would be a lie. A big fat lie, but if I wrote an ad thatsaid, Coke Ram will remind you of...

...weekends. With your GRANDPA, I would goyeah, that's true, because I would always go to GRANDPA's house and hewould have Coca Cola, which was, and he would sneak it to me because my parentsdidn't let me drink. You know sugary, sodas and stuff like that, and all of asudden I realized. Oh Coke, was about authenticity and refreshmentsociability. Those three key three words, because their competitor made the same product, commodities,sweet brown, bubbly, water, Pepsi Coke. Are they that different? Yes, if you're a coke of Ficino or aPepsi Aficionado? If you've ever been to a restaurant and have the servercome up and say: Oh I'm sorry, we don't have coke here we only serve Pepsiproducts. You know exactly what that coke lover feels like when they say: OhI'll, just have water right. If I can't have Coca Cola, I just want water. That's when I realized the power of abrand, and so the non fiction. Part of it was that Oh, this is not aboutmaking something up. It's about taking the truth and enhancing it authenticity,Coca Cola, eighteen, eighty six, it went nationwide a year later, Pepsi didguess what there coaxed the real thing, because they were the first. They werealways the real thing and we could go into a long discussion about new cokeand that mistake. But what that was? was the market placetelling coke? No, you can't mess with grandma grandma is spicy she's a littlebit acidic, but we love grandma and you don't mess with grandma and if you wereold enough to remember the new coke debacle, you know that coke messed withgrandma and the market place forced Coca Cola to be true to who they are,what they do and how they do it. They literally they and that's. A key thingfor people understand stand when you're doing branding right, you own yourbrand, and they do too and by they I mean the people who work for you, thepeople who buy from you the people who recommend you, the people who are whoconstantly look to you to be exactly who you are the non fiction part goesinto the what I would call the deep consideration of who you are, what youdo and how you do it like. I said earlier, I'm a writer but that's a tool. I can also design,maybe not that well, but I'm a I could be a designer, I'm a a bad video editor.I edit my own podcast. So I do all these things and the common denominatorof all of them is creativity. You know I don't follow recipes. I createliterally show me a basket full of fruits and vegetables and protein andI'll make a dinner, and it may not be great, but it's creative. I guaranteethat much. So we do with clients, it's all about findingtheir, true selves orauthentic cells and then packaging that in a way, that's believable andauthentic, yes, and making sure that they adhere to it because- and I don'tmean to pick on people, but I try to to give examples that people can relate tookay, you went to high school, you had a friend who's, a female and you areclose friends, but you were always in the friend zone.It never crossed over into romantic or whatever you don't see each other. ForTen years, fifteen years you go to high school reunion, and then you see thatfriend, who now has a totally different hair, color, totally different bodyshape. That has been surgically enhanced and invariably- and thishappens- it doesn't matter what gender you are or anything like that. Butliterally in your mind, if you don't say it to them directly, you'd be going.That's not the Jenny. I know, that's...

...not Jenny. I have a friend WHO's male,who I you know, grew up with ends up he's had some legal problems and stufflike that, and my response to that is: That's not the guy. I know that's notthe truth of who he is he's tried to be someone else he's putting on a brandI'd like to say it put it this way. A brand is not a pair of shoes. You Tieon your feet, it's who you are and when I show a presentation, I'll show a Nikead of the Nike shoes on the runner, and then I show the runner. The Nike shoes don't make the runner arunner. The Nike shoes make the runner get out there and just do it whateverthat is, and in the case of elite athletes, it's just do it and win orjust do it and perform. The goal is to identify yourself as arunner, not as a pair of shoes that you justtie on your feet and ideally that runner is actually going. You know whatI'm not just a runner. I am an athlete and what does that mean? An athlete hasan entire sensibility that is different than that of a sales person that isdifferent than that of a musician. An athlete is understands that things areconstantly a opportunity to win. So the question is: Are you performingat the highest possible level to be that type of winner? You know and againthis is just a kind of what I would call hack psychology. If all of asudden you say you know what I'm an athlete, even though I am a salesperson. What does that mean? Oh, maybe as an athletics oriented sales person,I need to be more prepared, so I can perform at a higher level that I needto practice as much as I actually perform. You know the the old VinceLombardy line about there's no practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practicemakes perfect if you're, someone like that that will, that quote, willresonate with you and and once you understand that you're not trying to beGary Vaner, chuck you're, not trying to be Kim car, dashy and you're not tryingto be whatever Berne Brown. I mean thinkabout that. Burnee Brown works at the University of Houston, which I like toa little bit. Snydey call the great place to be if you're, in the witnessprotection program as a as a academic and yet she's that personalbrand has enhanced the value of the entireuniversity and that's the goal that personal brandis now to be treasured by the university she's, no longer a cog, sheis irreplaceable, she's one of one. That's the goal not to be one of many,but one of one and the only one of one you can truly be. Is Yourself so haveyou done the work to figure out the first principal key, three ideas of whoyou are what you do and how you do it that I think, is a great way to wrapout this conversation and thank you for all the great insight on personal brandin which is a complex and fascinating topic on final question: Where canpeople learn more about you and what you do? Well, there are a couple places, butthe easiest one to get to because you don't have to spell my last name- isnon fiction. Brand Com, and if you go to nonfiction brandom gift, you candownload those three PDFs you don't at even have to give me your email address,I'm really bad at click funnel marketing and stuff like that. So ifyou want to sign up on my emailing list, please do I won't send you anything,probably, but it's nice to make that connection, and the other thing is:I've got a podcast, the nonfiction brand podcast new episodes. Everysingle Monday check that out where we get fine podcast for free and also thebooks available on Amazon Com. Just look for non fiction brand and KNU dten,which is Y, my last name, but you...

...should be able to find it non fictionbrand in the book section. Well, thanks for listening to anotherepisode of Markets Park, if you enjoyed the conversation, give it a five starreview, of course, and subscribe by a apple, podcast spotify or your favoritepodcast APP to learn more about how I help DB sat companies as a fractional Cmo for Cuyo advisory coach, send an email to mark at marketing, spark co orconnect with me on link an I'll talk, O o.

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