Don't Let Content Collect Dust. Distribute & Repurpose: Ross Simmonds

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Many marketers believe that when they hit "publish" on a piece of content, the job is done.

But the reality is it's just beginning.

Ross Simmonds says one of the keys to content marketing success is distribution. Without it, he says all you're doing is building a content library.

In this episode of Marketing Spark, Ross talks about:

- Why so many companies and marketers struggle with content distribution

- How to kick-start a content distribution plan

- How to repurpose content on multiple platforms

- Why it's important to focus on quality, not quantity

- How to create content that's valuable and SEO-friendly.

Hi, it's Mark Evans and you'relistening to marketing park. When I wrote my first marketing book, someonetold me that writing the book was the easy marketing and distribution for thebiggest challenges. It was a lesson that I painfully discover many respectsthe same rules of piece marketing rating contact is easy. Relativelyspeaking, distribution is hard. If no one consumes your content. It's a lotof hard work down the drain. Now, if you're looking for an advocate orevangelist for content distribution, it's Ross, Simmons, CEO at Foundation,marketing a content marking agency and Halifax on Linkedin YouTube blogs andpodcasts you'll hear bross pounding the table about content distribution.Welcome to marcene spark Ross. Thanks for having me Mark It's a pleasure toconnect. I've been a big fan of the work that you've done for the communityover the years. So it's a complete pleasure and I'm looking forward tochatting about my favorite topic today. Well, it's nice talking to a fellowCanadian marketer. I read today on Lington that you have been named a topone hundred content marketer by Basum. That is a great recognition. Thank youyeah! It's! It feels great, I was number three out of a list of a hundredwhich feels good in trying to represent for the Canadian marketers around theworld. We got to number three. My next step is to try to get to the number onespot, so lots more work still to be done, but I'm super thrilled and happyto be on that list. Well, I'm sure if there was voting a score of Canadianmarketers would rally behind you SA. That's the great scomfish appreciate itall right. Let's start with the obvious question, the sixty four thousanddollar question: Why do so many companies struggle with contentdistribution? You would think that it would be an integral part of an overallcontent marketing strategy yeah. I think the biggest reason is a lot oforganizations are fundamentally built...

...internally and have a content culturethat is built internally around the wrong thing and what I mean by that isa lot of the organizations in a lot of the companies, the marketing engines,the content engines within these companies. There are built around aproduction mindset and that production mindset is where they believe value isbeing created and delivered on behalf of marketing. Every time they presspublish so they're viewing in as a production game when, in reality, it'sa fundamental marketing game, which is you have to market the things that youproduce so rather than US falling into the trap as marketers in a lot ofcompanies do this of thinking. Our job is dumb when we press publish on ablood post on a e book on a White Paper on a webinars on a podcast on a tweeton a linked in update, etc. Instead of thinking that that is when the job isdone, we need to be thinking. That is when the job begins, but for manyorganizations they are tracking and monitoring how many pieces of contentdid this marketer create? How many pieces did this agency crate for us andthey're actually benefiting or aligning their incentives around output, ratherthan the results of the Opot, which is more correlated with distribution, sothat, I would say, is one of the fundamental issues and then the secondone would be that a lot of people just don't understand. The importance ofdistribution at large across all different types of metrics distributionis important if you're talking about sales, enablement distribution isimportant if you're talking about social media distribution is importantif, for time about company culture, distribution is a key part of everyelement of marketing, but for some reason it's often looked at is just atop of funnel high level social media funny thing, but in reality it cantouch every element of the marketing engine. In a way, it reminds me of those latenight, infomercials used to seize featuring this guy named Roppe, and hehad this tag line that was set it and forget it, and it sounds that I got alot of marketers are taking that approach to content. It's right it andforget it, and that strikes me as...

...really interesting, because you know asa content market or how much work goes into writing a good piece of content,the research, the interviews, the writing, the editing, the polishing andyou finally get it into a place where you've invested so much time in effortyou hit publish, as is very satisfying, and it's almost like the the wholething is half baked. They forget that there's a whole other side of theequation, and maybe it is comes down to the mentality that you talk about, butmaybe it's that we're just not we're not thinking about it. We're not trainproperly. When it comes to distribution, yeah and it does, you do get a nice lotof dopamine rush when you press publish on a piece of content right, like youfeel good to press, publish in that you want that again, so you continue todo it. You continue to press, publish you continue to do that constantlywithout recognizing that, if you get in the habit of just pressing, publish,eventually you're just going to have a collection of content, a collection ofassets, but those pieces aren't serving you when you're, not amplifying themprmoting them and distributing them appropriately. So if you were to develop a contentmarketing distribution plan, where do you start because I think a lot ofmarketers in theory like the idea of publishing content and thendistributing it in multiple places? So you can expand the size of the audience,but when it comes t down to practical realities, they're busy they've gotother priorities they're moving on to the next project of the next piece ofcontent. So they don't think about Dustan Breton, so help them frame the whole distribution plan. Sothey can actually drive more our alive from the content that they're producingyeah. I love this question because it starts with the fundamentals andmarketing and I think, there's a lot of content firms. I think there's a lot ofcompanies with a lot of leaders in the content space that over focus oncontent without actually worrying with the Amerikani side, and the markingside is where we have to root all of our efforts. So let's go back tofundamentals, a marketing, and where does that start? It starts with thepeople you're trying to serve and the people you're trying to connect with.So what I would say you start with is...

...trying to understand and understand andconnect with the people you're trying to reach you're looking to getalignment in like the actual product that you have and the customers. So youcan go back to fundamentals who do we serve? Who Do we want to use ourproduct, use our service etc? And then you have to start analyzing andstudying them as people in them as professionals and their needs theirmotivations? What I would advise is that you start to look at things likechannel user, fit from what channel user fit is. Is it's the idea thatdifferent people are going to spend time on different channels? So whatyou're going to start to do is you're going to navigate and study whatchannels are these users spending time on and when you identify that? Okay,this audience this target that we're going after, let's se its cts, the CTSthat we're trying to reach our spending time on Linkedin they're spending timeon read it they're spending time on get up, get have get hub, they're spendingtime in Angel List, they're spending time on Hacker News, all thesedifferent sites. You now have channel user fit now, once you have that youhave to start looking for content user fit. So how do you do that? You startto look at these channels and start to study what are the best pieces ofcontent that have been published in these channels that these communitiesin this audience of c Tos actually wanted? And when you start to seetrends between okay? When we look at this subere- and we see a bunch of ctOs, always talking about this certain subject, that is an insight. It's aninsight into the fact that we can come into this community with stories aboutthis topic and they're going to resonate with it, and if you can dothat, consistently you're going to have what we call content market fit. So theresearch process for a distribution engine starts by understanding youraudience better than your competitors, and when you understand your audiencebetter than your competitors, you then need to look at what channels they'respending the vast majority of their time on once. You have that you'regoing to study the best content on that channels to inform the content youcreate in the future. But that's not what you're going to kind of call theend of that process. You also need to be looking at whether or not yourcompetitors are using those channels,...

...because if you find out that yourcompetitors are ignoring a channel, that is highly popular with your targetaudience because they view it as being a risky channel. Then that is somethingthat I believe is a gold mine for any brand to take advantage of. If you seethat your audience is spending a bunch of time in a sub redit with hundreds ofthousands of people, but everybody in your industry is like Whoa we're scaredof read it. That is your opportunity to be the earlier doctor into that channelto capture mindshare, to distribute your stories in there to distributeyour content consistently and capture value that your competitors haveoverlooked. So the way that you can ensure, then, when you do go into thischannel, something that you're formed with, is that approach of studying thecontent that people want on that channel? And then, when you get thatwhen you study that- and you know it, it makes it easier for you todistribute your content in a format that those people are going to want,and it's going to ultimately set you up for success as you distribute yourcontent across multiple channels in the months to come. I really like thatapproach because it aligns with my walk before you run philosophy when it comesto marketing a lot of marketers are focused on tools and technology andtactics, and often we don't take a step back and think about the strategicapproach that we should take to anything marking related, includingcontent, and I think what you're saying- and I see this a lot on Linkedin- isthe the fact that you need to know yourcustomers inside out. You need to know their habits, how they buy, what kindof content they consume, and if you get that in place, then, as you say, it's alot easier to figure out yeah. I got to destrue my content here here and here,and this is the kind of content that matters to them right and you've donethis well, like you know them cos like you know that CEOS like that space isspending time on Lindon, so by investing the time of Front inunderstanding that audience and becoming one with your audience in manyways, you've been able to successfully developand deliver content, just likethis podcast on a consistent basis that...

...your audience loves. It's all aboutknowing your audience loving your audience, and I know that sounds weird,but you really do have to love them to that point, where you know everythingabout them. The other angle of content, distribution that you talk a lot about,and I'm I'm it's so important- is the idea of content repurposing and theidea that you create it once and you turn it into multiple things, and maybeyou can provide some inside and how does that happen? Walk me through anexample of how to turn a single piece of content into a multi faceted asset.This is a great inside for anyone who has ever pressed published on a pieceof content and they were like this is really good, but we don't know how toget the maximum amount of value out of it. So when you press, publish on,let's see a blog post, because that's typically a pretty standard piece ofcontent and a lot of organizations- great, let's say you've created an indepth block pokes that is very valuable to your audience in your community thatblog post doesn't live and die on your book you're going to repurpose it. Howdo you do that you're going to turn it into a twitter threat, so you're goingto take that introduction that you've already created theres, captivating andyou're going to reform at that to make it in very interesting and unique?First tweet that you're going to send out and then we're going to havemultiple tweeds underneath it that are going to break up some of the keypoints below it. Then, at the bottom of that twitter thread, you're going tohave a link driving back to the original post and people can get thefull endeth article over there. In addition to that, you're going to takethat entire blog post and you're going to turn it into a slide deck you're,going to turn it into a presentation you're going to bring it a designer toturn it into something beautiful and you're, going to upload a P F directlyinto linked in under their fall section, you're going to take that you're goingto do screenshots of every slide and updated to instagram. So you have acarcel that you can republish and share on your instagram account, and this isagain all off of one block post you're then going to take some of those greenshots in those visuals and you're, going to upload those individually asassets to twitter and you're going to say, here's a concept, here's an idea!This is a tid bit and you're going to...

...share those one off on your varioustwitter account you're, also going to take that same twitter thread that youhad and you're going to add a little bit more me to it, which is going toget it in between the blond post in the twitter thread and you're, going torepublish that, as a long form asset on something like red you're, going totake elements of that redipt and you're going to share those little tidbits onlinked in as just status updates. So you're. Taking paragraphs afterparagraphs at funding, the key nugget finding the key inside and you'resharing them as one off updates on linked in on twitter as differenttwitter threats on facebook and, while you're doing all of this you're keepingan eye on facebook groups to see if anybody's asking a question. So you cango in and start to share some of those visuals that you had in your slide hairpresentation directly in the comments in a group. That's targeting your atarget audience! So when we talk about creating once and then we purposing anddistributing forever, the opportunity is truly endless like today at in thismoment I can go on twitter and I can do a twitter search for somebody who'stalking about Seo. Talking about red talking about excels, talking about theunbundling of Sass, all of these different things, and if I find someonetweeting about those things, I can get into that conversation share ascreenshot of the graphic of a visual of a blog post that I have shared inthe past, send it to them, and that is content. Ry purposing and those peopleare going to engage with it, they're going to interact with it, but a lot ofpeople, as we talked about earlier, will create a bunch of content. Letthat content collect dust and then wonder why they're not able to generatetraction and traffic on the back of it for years, if not decades, to come, butif the key is to repurpose it remix it and revise old content and keep italive. So another reaction of a lot of peoplewill be Ross. That sounds amazing, and if you can do that, I mean yourcontent. Distribution will explode, but the reality is: is that you're talkingabout people who may not have enough time may not have the tools may nothave the aptitude or the energy? So how do you drive those kind of efficiencies?How do you do all the things that...

...you've prescribed in a way that fitsinto the amount of time they've got and their other marketing priorities?There's a few ways that you can go about it like, I think, they're, thethe key is to realize like this is a job right. It's a job, it's not justsomething that you say: I'm going to get an intern to go, come in and docontent distribution. No. This is a job. It's ideally someone who has studieddistribution who has spent time doing distribution has understood it canthink in a mindset that is distribution and then they can execute on it. So youcan take the approach where you hire someone that is one hundred percent anopportunity. The other thing that you could do if you are strapped forresources- and you can't bring in someone full time if you have to do abit of a gut check and ask yourself, do we really need to create more contentlike how much content have we already created this year? I fundamentallybelieve that, every year, by about Q to in the year, most companies havecreated enough content and they can calm down. They can press pause, theycan slow down and they don't need to actually create anything else. They canjust start distributing the content assets that they've already created. Sofor some organizations they need to just do a gut check internally to say:Do we really need another white paper? Do we really need another block postand start taking that time and allocating it to distribution? And thenthe next option is that you bring an expert you bring in third parties. Youbring an organizations like foundation, of course, shameless plug, but youbring in organizations who specialize in content distribution to actually runyour distribution engine. On your behalf, in a recent Linkedin Post, I suggestedthat the next hop marketing job would be the director or vp of contentdistribution thoughts. I love it and the reason why is this- we've beenpreaching for so long at the top of our lungs every marketer, every guru, everyC mo content is king contents, King and guess what congratulations folks,everybody has listened. Now we all get it. We all get this idea that contentis important. We've got the VP content,...

...we've got the director of content. Allof these roles now exist, but here's the issue we're investing so heavily inthis content that is collecting dus as we're talking about. So we need someoneto partner with the person who's leading content, to ensure that thatcontent has legs. So the VP of content distribution, I believe, is going to bean crucial role, especially when you look at the narrative in theconversation happening right now around every organization needing to be amedia company. Okay, it's great to be a media company that whole mentality inthat thought process is strong, but does everyone remember what the mediacompanies used to have like? Let's go back to the traditional newsletterslike the newspaper companies. What did they have the distribution directly toyour doorstep? People had subscriptions that they were willing to pay for wherenewspapers would get dropped off at your door and there would be a hundredsof kids running around the city throwing newspapers at your door. Thereis no better distribution than that. They no longer have that because of theInternet and their businesses have crumbled. So we can act like mediacompanies where we will create great news, letters and great newspapers,great blood pots, great white papers, but if we don't have a bunch ofnewspaper runners and carriers to take the assets that we are creating andinvesting it in getting them in front of our people in front of our audiences,we're going to be just like the newspaper industry. So yes, I a hundredpercent by into the idea that a VP of content distribution should be a rolethat everyone is thinking about and if you are not there yet, if today, you'relistening to this and you're like I'm, not there yet start internally with amedium senior role right, because that person will grow in your organ. Theywill eventually get there, but give someone the responsibility of contentdistribution and it will pay a massive dividends. I believe, long term as someone who delivered newspapers asa young boy and actually became, became a newspaper reporter for a long time. Ilove the analogy. It's something I can...

...totally relate to. It does one of theother angles that you talked about was: I think it was quality over quantityand the idea that we don't have to be. We need content engines, but we don'tnecessarily need to be content machines, and you hear a lot these days about theimportance of high quality content, and that is completely subjective based onthe needs and interests of your target audience. The question is: How docompanies ensure that they're creating an I say in quotation, marks highquality or valuable content yeah? It starts by again going back tofundamentals of truly caring and understanding your audience and thenknowing what their pain points are, and only pressing publish on pieces ofcontent that are going to solve for those pain problems, those pain pointsand the issues that they are facing on a regular basis, and you have torecognize like we are human and humans are like onions. We have tons ofdifferent layers and that, on its own, should give you a lot of differentangles, no matter if you're talking to a C to a CFO, a CEO Director, marketing,whatever you can come at it from a lot of different angles, to solve multipleproblems that these people have in your life and in your option in that you canessentially help them achieve their dreams, achieve their goals, achievewhat they're looking to accomplish. So when you start with those fundamentaldeep understandings of who they are, what they are, what they're looking forwhat they want to accomplish. The next step is to kind of set a bit of a Bar,and, I always say, like you, should strive for content excellence, but thebest way to achieve content excellence is to actually get data back from youraudience around. What content did we publish that has been meaningful foryou? You can simply install a variety of different tools today to do a bit ofan MPs on the content that you're creating like. Do you like this contentthat we're creating and you can use that as a measurement to betterunderstand? Are we hitting the mark, like is the content that we're creatingactually lining up with their problems? Have those conversations have yourcontent, marketing team talk to the people who are reading it and offerthem a simple gift card, or offer them something to just pick their brain toget insight into whether or not the...

...content that you're creating isactually valuable to them? So qualitative and quantitative analysisof the value of your content is very important, and then you can also setsome metrics around whether or not your content is better than the competitorsand how you do that is purely subjective, but you're going to look atwhat exists today. That is trying to answer a question or solve a problemthat your audience has and then you look at it and you say: Can we bebetter than this? And if the answer is yes, you can be better than that. Youcan create something better than that then go. Do it like go, create the bestresource for that subject, but don't make the mistake of just producing itbecause there's t word volume opportunities, don't go creating itjust because you think you might get a few shares go create it because youthink you can add more value than the other asset that already exists andwhen you lean into that mindset and that approach typically you're going tocome out on top that lends itself into my next question, which is this strangedance that marketers play with Google and search engine optimization. Youknow we look at key words: We've been a lot of us, have been guilty of keywordstuffing and writing to to the algorithm, as opposed to writing to theaudience. Given that I'm very interested in youradvice and how content marketers should approach Google and the whole algorithmyeah, I think you have to be human first and then robot second, so youfirst start with the focus being. I need to solve a certain problem for thehuman, the human that's going to Google and typing in a question the humanthat's going to go and asking how to do a certain thing. You start with thatand when you can figure out whether or not you can solve that problem, youthen create the most valuable thing in the world that you can develop withyour resources, your time, etc. Then you view it from a robot lines. Afteryou have done the work to create something of amazing value, you thenare going to put it through a lens of thinking. Okay, how can I ensure thatthis is optimized for search? How can I...

...ensure that my imagery, that my imagesthat I'm uploading are going to show up in Google images that I have chartsthat are going to show up in Google images that these things are going toserve me well in the years to go? How can I make sure my headline has akeyword? My Url has a key word. There are some standard checkless items thatyou should do just to make sure that you were searched friendly with oat,going over the top to be so search driven that you are no longer humanfriendly. So you want to lean heavily towards being human friendly first inhuman centric, first and then robot centric after, but while doing ityou're meeting in the middle and you're, not going so far to the so dremancontent that you're losing the ability to really speak to a human in a humanway that ultimately leads to value love that allergy right for humans and thenwrite for robots. Two final questions: one is that content marketing has enjoyed at what Icall a moment of the last nineteen months as Bdvar as disappeared contentstepped into the fray conferences are coming back, so I'm curious about twothings: one. What are the platforms are vehicles, the content, platforms andvehicles that you think are particularly interesting these days,maybe platforms and marketers haven't embraced completely and second would be.What's your overall take on the content, marketing landscape moving forwardgreat, so I think there's two channels that marketers are sleeping on a lotand one of them is a bit of a category at large and the other is a veryspecific channel. So the category in particular, I think, or communities,and I think communities are starting to grow significantly and over the lastfew months, we've seen a surge in communities because more people havebeen behind the desk and not going to conferences and, as such communitieshave become more and more important. So when I talk about communities, what isRoss talking about? I'm talking about the online spaces that people aregathering who share similar interests, so people today, no matter if we'retalking about be to be marketing, we're...

...talking to be to see marketing or we'retalking about mums, we're talking about people who love Barbecue, we're talkingabout Philadelphia, Eagles fans. These people are gathering in communitiesonline to talk about things that they're interested in and that they'repassionate about. So you can find groups on facebook groups on discordgroups on slack groups on Subradio of people who are chartered accountantstalking about their craft every single day and to the normals of the world.The people who are just typically not like thinking like marketers, that'sjust a way of life. It's just a way of life to communicate with other peoplewho have shared interest as a market. You should view this as an opportunityright. You should be able to say: okay, we're trying to read charteredaccountants, and there happens to be a facebook group, there's a slackcommunity and there's a subrident targeting these groups. What does thatmean? It means that you can go into these communities and you can see yourcontent. It means you can reach out to the moderators of these communities andsponsor posts that are going to go up in them. You means that you can reachout to some of them and potentially even acquire them and acquire thesegroups where you now own the groups yourself. So that is a massive massiveopportunity that I think a lot of people are sleeping on. Is thesevarious niche communities that exist on a wide range of different platforms?Now the other one that I think a lot of marketers are sleeping on, but that isa massive opportunity is tick tock and I think that's surprising to folks,because they're going to say Ross your and be to be your and ask what are youtalking about? I believe that, where the youth spendtime, oftentimes results in the biggest insights and trends of where things aregoing to go, and one of the biggest insights that I'm seeing on channelslike tick tock is the desire in need for video, that is short, educational,entertaining educational and valuable. But in a different type of format thana lot of us are used to- and I believe if you fast forward twenty five years,you're going to be seeing C mos of companies who literally learnedmarketing on the back of instagram reels on the back of Tick Tock and onthe back of vertical videos. So what...

...does that mean? It means that all ofthe marketers of the world should be looking at it for inspiration, I'm notsaying go to Morrow Stare ticktock strategy, but what I am saying is thatyou should be thinking about the content, habits and behaviors that areshifting and changing, because there's a lot of insight to be gathered fromthat. The other question was what my take on content: Merican landscape asAlart. I don't think it's slowing down any time soon, there's never been agreater time to be a content creator, there's never been a better time to bea content. optimizer there's never been a better time to be a contentdistributor, but there's also never been an easier time to become one andbecause it's so easy now to create content. Because of these great devicesthat we all have in our hands because of the decreasing cost to internet thedecrease in cost of technology, the decreasing cost of access, all of thesethings are making it easier to be a content creator to even positionyourself as a content creator. It is creating a very competitive environmentwith a lot of noise and the noise is going to get bigger and bigger andbigger, but there's nothing that any of us can do about it. It's just a part ofthe game and my advice to anyone would be to stay focus, commit to addingvalue strive every single day to improve, because the competition is notgoing down and we live in a global world now, more than ever, whereborders no longer exist and you will be able to work with almost anyone withalmost anyone anywhere. So what the landscape going to look like it's goingto continue to be noisy, it's going to continue to be bigger and theopportunity is going to continue to be massive for those who continue toembrace it before wrapping up. I want to circle back to your thoughts oncontent platforms earlier this year late last year therewas a lot of buzz and a lot of hype...

...about club House and what are your thoughts on audio as a content marketing platform? I think thebiggest takeaway from club host the biggest takeaway from a lot of thesenetworks and platforms that show up and sometimes dendo one don't necessarilytake off, is like you can still get a lot of insight into human behavior justby watching them club Os took off in an amazing meaningful way and why it did.That is because people recognize and people enjoy. Just like people enjoypodcast audio engagement. I think audio is a very powerful, powerfulcommunication tool and the reason is this: When you think about our humanhabits, often times the actual hierarchy of the ways in which weconsume content start with video video content for years has been one of thenumber one ways in which we've received content. Number two has actually been aaudio. Radio was a massive thing. It's still a massive thing: we listen toradio in the car. We listen to it all over Bahbahbah and then books as muchas I love books. The vast majority of the world actually doesn't like sittingdown and reading a five hundred page book. It's actually not something a lotof people enjoy doing, but we do enjoy audio. We do enjoy video. So when youthink about that and you think about what humans actually want, it becomesvery crystal clear that video audio are very, very engaging in valuable assetsand I think the platforms that exist in leverage them are going to be able togenerate a lot of results, but more than anything, I also think thosecreators who invest in those platforms are going to be able to generate a lotof results to and here's the other piece. I think we're only at sixtypercent of the global population being online today. So if you have audiocontent, if you have video content, even if you have written content andyou fast forward when the next ten percent, the next twenty percent of theworld gets online and you've created that content, it's tars to betranslated because there's AI that allows it to happen. I your content isgoing to have a massive impact on...

...culture, because people want videopeople want audio and if you can deliver it to them in a way that isscalable and valuable you're going to win thanks for all the great insight asa marketer who spends a lot of time focused on content. You certainly giveme a lot to think about and I think there's a lot of marketers who aretrying to leverage content. There's new approaches, new ideas, new tools thatthey can certainly embrace going forward. Final Question: where canpeople learn more about you and Foundation Marketing Yeah? So I'm onall your favorite social media platforms. I would love to connect withyou if you're on link didn't send me a connection. Let me know that you heardme on the podcast with America. I would love to connect with you over there,but you can also learn more about foundation at foundation in do co ormyself, I'm at the cool school on all of your favorite twitters and linked inplatforms. My pro tip is: Don't create your twitter handle when you're inuniversity. It will stick with you for life. I've got it, I'm embracing it andyeah I'd love to connect with folks on every other network or platform thatyou're on thanks for listening to that episode of marketing spark. If youenjoyed the conversation, leave a review subscribe by Apple, podcast,spotify or your favorite podcast, APP and, of course, share by social mediato learn more about how I help pet SAS companies as a fractional, Camoscia,visor and coach, and in email mark markings, Parco or net with me on, likea a.

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