Driving ROI and Predictability with Revenue Marketing: Yaagneshwaran Ganesh

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Every company wants its marketing to drive leads, sales, and ROI.

But marketing can be an up and down situation. Sometimes, marketing works. Sometimes, it doesn't.

On this episode of the podcast, Yaag Ganesh talks about why revenue marketing is an approach that ROI and predictability. 

It's about focusing on marketing that works and then developing structures and workflows to "shampoo, rinse, and repeat."

Yaag and I also talked about:

- The rise of Clubhouse and why he's been spending a lot of time on the audio-only platform

- Building a personal brand as an international marketer.

You're listening to market is far thepodcast atters insight tools and tips for marketers and entrepreneurs in thetrenches and twenty five minutes or less it's funny how you be keeping Yappon on Linkin last year, when I noticed his post and I check it a profile withstarts with the top one hundred marketing technology. Now that's goodmarketing along the way we connected and commented on each other's post, andthen we both jumped on clothos far to say: We've been certing each other forus hey, I'm super excited a thank you for how you one of the places where I wanted tostart is the concept of of Revenue Marketing. This is something that youmentioned when we were preparing for the podcast and be honest with you, Ihaven't really heard of revenue marketing. Obviously we hear a lotabout Ab m social selling, content marketing social media. So maybe youcan explain what revenue marketing is and why it matters for bit b brands.You know if you look at it fundamentally, the CEO, the C fo, theCOO and the CRO. They kind of speak the same language right so in a sense likeeverybody's talking about revenue, they're talking about profitability,they're talking about you know pretty much what happens at the business level,but the issue is, you know not many, the when it comes to the marketers, thelanguage is totally different. You know we're talking about demand GIN. We aretalking about branding. We are talking about a lot of intersit that directlydon't contribute to the bottom line of the company. You know with that incontext. It doesn't really matter. You know how sophisticated your Marti Stackis or how many people are there already marketing team or how big your budgetis. Unless you really know what is working for you and what is not andwhat is contributing to the revenue, what is contributing to the profitablyetc. So you know a lot of companies tend to spend big budgets that don'treally contribute to any tangible results, not talking of transibit. Youknow I'm not necessarily saying that everything needs to be tangible. Thispodcast that we are recording right now. You know it need not be tangible, it it.For example, you cannot measure the results right away, but you know a fewmonths down the line. Somebody might connect with you and say that hey mark,you know the other day You and York were having a conversation aboutrevenue arting, and I found that part interesting. That's how that's how I'mconnecting with you right now and I, when I went back to your profile, I sawthat you are a fractional co and you are into this business. Marketing Sparkis into this business, so I thought I'll connect with you and to day behaving this conversare. That attribution can happen, but it is goingto be intuitive, but at the Court of Revenue Marketing you know the idea isto move from outputs to outcomes. You know to be able to build that set ofrepeatable processes and programs that not on the drive customer acquisition,but also more in terms of say, recording revenue. The the ideabasically is to make sure that you know you are...

...reducing the ratio between Kak, that is,your customer acquisition cost and the Customer Lifetime Vale. That is CLV andI came up with a framework around this called the game model which is g. A M Estands for gather, agree map and execute, and I've also written a bookaround this, which is called the Revenue Marketing Book for theRustiness of this podcast. You know if you're interested you can help on to aMason and check out this book, and if you have a kindle it's the EVECquestion is completely free. So this is a broad or view of revenue marketingmark. One of the things that I read aboutrevenue marketing is the idea of predictable ry and that fascinates me,because marketing in many respect is in an experiment. You try different things.You leverage different channels and, ideally you get to predictable or ifyou know what's going to work and what's not, can you talk to thatconcept and how you how you can build it into a revenue, marketing effortright? So when it comes to predictability, it's all about runningsmaller experiments and trying to see what comes out of it like say, forexample, you know instead of betting on ten different channels. You look atwhich channel is working the best for you like say, for example, in terms ofsocial media, I might have run ads on Linton. I might have run ads on Facebo.I might have tried Google arts, but if my Max Roy is coming from Lington, thenI'm going to double down on that channel, so basically trying to seewhich one works. The best and multiplying on that so preticly is alsoin terms of you know, once you've identified what is working for you, yougo back and map down your strategy. According to that, and you can say thathey through this channel, I'm going to drive so much contribution to revenueand then this is going to channel down further into AB and C. So it's allabout in running experiments and finally narrowing it down to what isgoing to work for you. So if somebody were to decide thatrevenue marketing was something that they wanted to embrace, how do you getstarted? Is it a completely different way of thinking? Do you have to usedifferent tools? Do you have to use different pis and metrics? Thefundamental is that you have to stay away from all possible vanity metrics.You don't have to invest in a lot of tools, but you probably have to so oneof the key things that I talk about in the revenue. Marketing Book is alsothat you need to go back and audit the set of tools that you already have inthe sense. Like you know you might have been. You might have invested in a lotof tools that you are not even using right now, so go back and check thatand say, for example, if you've invested in a lot of events, I mean I'mtalking pre cod. If you've invested in a lot of events, you need to actuallygo back and understand that people who come into the coming to these tradeshows not necessarily come to visit your both. They come there to networkand they come come there to listen to. You know the people that the DOTleaders that are there in that particular industry from there. Thepoint of view is that you know you don't in Eston separator of tools, butyou you kind of streamline whatever you...

...already have and try to map it towhat's working tried to map it to as much tangible outcomes as possible, that's great, and if anybody'sinterested in learning more about revenue marketing, I would highlyrecommend that you go to Amazon and get hold of ags book for free. So let her recitesto podcast, ing you and I both have podcast. I jumped on the podcast banwagon last June, and one of the things that I kick myself for is that I shouldhave done it a lot earlier. The benefits of PODCAST, ING in terms ofmeeting people and prospects, the ability to generate new and evergreencontent and just have fun in terms of learning. New Skills has made podcasting, probably the Best Marketing Channel that I've embraced in a longtime. One of the questions that I wanted to ask you is just your take onhow enthusiastically B TB companies are embracing, podcast you and I obviouslyhave a biased view of the world, because we think that podcast are great.Are Bete companies in fact leveraging podcast if they're not what's thepitched for them to actually start doing a podcast? Two weeks back when Iwas doing a podcast recording with my good friend, Christopher locked, youknow he said a very strong thing. He said like if you are a B to B Companyand if you don't have a podcast you're insane, you know you cannot getmurterer than that, but if I have to break you to the context from myviewpoint see, there are right now about six hundred and fifty thousandactive podcast. I'm talking active podcast, not just the millions ofartists out there. You know what was happening in the PODCAST ING WorldRight now is. It is going through the exact stage that blocking went throughin and around two thousand nine two thousand and ten when half Swart wascoming into the scene. So the way I look at it is you need to have a clearsense of purpose as to wear podcast contributes to your marketing fly. Willwhether it's going to be your top of the funnel and demand generation, orare you using it for brand building, or is it going to be something thatcontributes to your abner is account base marketing, where the idea is toyou know, build relationship with the people in your target account like say,for example, if you always wanted to build a relationship with one of thedecision makers in those target accounts invite them as a guest on yourpodcast biled relationships, because you know the focus is on them andyou're Otaki to them in a non sane cat moster. So that makes a lot of sense.So the fundamental point of view is: You need to have a sense of purpose asto why you're doing your podcast. Otherwise, you know it becomes yet morechannel you're, very our present and you're, going to be one among themillions of podcast out there and it's not going to contribute to your bottomline or even your brand or anything in any way. I totally agree with you and in factJames Carbarry, who run sweet fish media suggested on a linkin post acouple weeks ago that all Btbai s are...

...going to have a podcast at some pointin time. Just like all bt companies have blogs right now, and I totallyagree with that view. It's a complete, no brander for lots of differentreasons, many of them that you've talked about, but the other thing aboutpodcast for bt companies is the ability to take a podcast and repurpose it intolots and lots of different types of content, whether it's Bogos e books,social media, snip at social media updates and the list goes on and on.Given the growing emphasis on content marketing, you got to look at podcastas being the engine for a lot of content and that's why I think mostcompanies will find it impossible to resist having a podcast at some pointin time. You know the the opportunity, as you said, to leverage the PODCAST isway more in the sense like today. Right now, we we have too many transcriptssoftware. One of my personal favorites is descript, which allows you to youknow, break down your podcast into a proper blog or a proper transcript, andit also helps you in editing the podcast as well. So it's a multipurposethere and right away. You can carry it out into smaller chunks. You can useapps like headliner, and you know you can put out audio grams like there aremultiple was and if you're shooting it as a video podcast, then you know youcan also put put out video. You know video snippets, so the idea is, youneed to think about again. As I said earlier, you need to think about whereyou're going to use this, how it's going to contribute to your odalmarketing plan, which part of the five day is it going to contribute to? Andyou start from the viewpoint of how you're going to distribute and thencome down to the topic, because what you need to know who your audience is,are you need to know where they are present and what format of reposingmakes sense in that channel? And then, if you can map that to the set ofquestions at the set of topics that you prepare and the kind of gets that youget into your podcast, I think it all works backwards. That's great insight! So let's TalkAbout Club House, you know we've got to talk about Club House, I've been on forabout ten days and spent some time, not a lot experimenting, dabbling hostingrooms just trying to get a feel for the value of cloth house, there's a lot ofpeople right now that are totally into it. They spend hours and hourslistening and hosting rooms. I don't know where the at the time personally Ias was work and what I do try to get on sometimes after work. My wife says tome: What are you doing? Why are you spending more time on the Internet? I'ma bit ambiguous about club house right now because I'm not sure how to fit itinto my professional world. To be honest with you, I've gotten so muchvalue from link in over the last last nine months, I'm really reluctant tostart to dilute my digital marketing efforts and curious about yourexperience with Club House and what you're getting from it so farright, so I've been into cloth house, for I would say now about ten or twelvedays. I guess I very recently lost my...

...party Hut, which means I've completed aweek or a little more than that, and for me what happened? was you knowsomething that I really love about? The way clubhouse was promoted was it wasall around the former, the fear of missing out- and I had one of myfriends from Romena reach out to me and say that Ya, you need to be on clubhouse. The Best of the best people are here. You get access to these people,you know you can connect with them and it's very often take and a blah blahand I came in and I was like this is totally different. You know I C N. Icould not even go and d anyone or pink anyone. It was all wise. So what I likeabout Plum House is that you know you cannot come and prepared right now. Ifsomebody is into a specific room- and they are discussing this specific topic,then, if whether you're going to ask a question or you're going to answersomething, it's going to be on the fly, so it's not going to be rosed. It'salways you know it's going to be authentic. That is something that Ireally love and the second part is, I see it as an extension to therelationships that have, but on Linton. In a sense, it was a no branner for meto connect with the people here on club house, with whom I had already. Youknow bill relationships on Licton so that that helped and through them Ialso got introduced to many other people, but the best part is withcertain people whom I've seen on Lindon for a long time like say yourself, youknow you and I have been interacting on each other's pose for a long time, butwhen we came out to club house we could hear each other's vice and you knowreally put a vice to that opinion and the conversation and the relationshipsgot much deeper. So this is one thing that I see as a straightforwardadvantage because as a person, I'm all about building trust and relationships,but the other way around. What I see ismissing in Club House right now is you know they have prioritize in Stagra andtwitter, but I would love a direct integration to our tenacity to Lindon,because that's where I see the maximum connect, I mean what s. what's yourexperience? What is that you think you're missing up there? Well, I agree with you that club house is a great way to drive newconnections and then to extend your relationships with people that youalready know so there's a lot of people have migrated, or our experiment amwith Club House who I've connected with on Linkin and that in itself takes itto another dimension. When you can actually hear somebody's voice, that'spretty awesome. The problem I have with Club House right now is: It seemssomewhat random. There's no TV guide to tell you that, for example, that acertain speakers will be hosting a room on Thursday at six o'clock, so that youcan actually set your schedule because part of the problem is that I tend todip in and dip out there something interesting I listen. If not, then Idon't know what's going on so I think I'm missing out on a lot ofconversations like I don't know where clapps is going to go. I don't knowwhere they're going to make money. I don't know where the WHATT, the secretsauce is going to be. But one of the...

...theories that I have- and I wrote aboutit earlier this week on Linkin- is that clup house could emerge as the nextgreat podcast ing platform right now. PODCAST ING is essentially me talkingto you or a single person talking and it's a very sort of one dimensionalmedium. We produce this podcast we broadcast it, there's no interactively.There's no QA, there's no participation by the audience. What I see couldhappen is that club house couldn't evolve into a podcast ing platformwhere you and I could talk, and then somebody from the audience could raisetheir hand and ask a question, and you could create this really dynamicconversation. Cloos would glad you to do two things. One is that you coulddownload record and download the conversation and then added it andproduce it and publish a podcast or club house could do that all bythemselves, and I think that would be probably a lot of work and theyprobably couldn't scale that kind of thing. So I think the latter, theformer, is going to happen. People will let you record and download a podcastfor a fee. Of course, that's how I see clock host really catching fire asidefrom the conversations. What are your thoughts about that raid? I totallyagree, and you know the second part here is that when it's a pre scheduledmeeting as well in the sense you know that does not work for me the same way,it would for a zoom call, for instance, the way I approach club houses. Thatsay, for example, I treat it as I'm walking into a trade show and when Ilook at the hallway there are different topics: different rooms. You know wherethey're discussing different topics and I look at it and I feel okay. If thisis the topic of my interest, I jump into that room and the two things thathappen either the tropic has to be a Levin to me or the sort of people inthat room. You know need to be a sort of peoplethat I already know or people that I think are relevant to my business. So Iget in and then look at the conversation yeah from there on it goesthe way it goes. But but one thing for sure is that once you get into a room,it's like you never know how much time you are losing. You know I plan forabout y fifteen twenty minutes and suddenly I realized that we have lostabout like say almost an hour an hour and a half, that's great. I am in the same boat,one of the things ye that I wanted to ask. You is about personal brand. You Iwant to talk a little bit about that as far as your own personal brand, I'mlinked in. To be perfectly honest, I don't come across a lot of Indianmarketers. There are obviously some amazing Indian software companies, butnot so many Indian marketers with your profile. So maybe you can talk a littlebit about your own personal branding experience and why we don't see moreIndian marketers with a high profile on linked in and then your generalthoughts on on personal branding right. So you so right. It sends like you knowwhen I was when I was getting started in the world of marketing in and aroundtwo thousand eight two thousand and nine. I saw that a lot of people lookat Indians as Tecali people, like you...

...know, the the Co of an adobe or the cuof Microsoft or see of Google are all Indians. We've never noticed somebodywho's a star from the marketing side in India, so thatthat was always there, the back of my head and that's why I started spendingmore time on social media or trying out a lot of things that were in my area ofinterest in a sense like I was never interested in a proper it management ortechnique side of things, but I was always interested in marketing, somarketing and tech kind of married together. That's how Marty came into my my landscape, but honestly, I nevertried to brand myself into something. In fact, the Linton sorry, the MARTITAhundred came in as as an effect of what I was doing and say writing books or bethe speaking around the word like all of those things happen. Naturally, soyou know, I would say what started as me being a natural person doing thethings that I do it worked out positively, but when it comes topersonal branding, I do have a very strong opinions in the sense like how people need to approach it. In a senseyou know most of the people who are there on Linton. What they do, forexample, is their posts are more like a new sportof what their company does. For instance, they would be talking aboutthings like hey. You know what my company acquired this company or thisproduct, or we are launching this new product, and you just become thatbulletin board your you don't come across as a human. You don't o comeacross as a person that people want to connect to and that's it. There is alsothe totally opposite spectrum. You know you see this template where everybodygoes on to this rax register. You know which goes on something like I was ashit and you know I did X and suddenly became a hit, and you can also try thisif you see a fit blah blah blah so that that template is kind of boring peopleto death, because almost everyone started to use that and that, in myview, it's not how person granting needs to be done. You know you need togo about developing expertise on a very specific domain that excites you to theextent that you can have opinions about. You know be known for a specific domain,be known for a specific niche. You start owning the niche and then whathappens is if you are a founder, then it helps you in attracting the rightkind of audience, or you know, probably even the right kind of CS, because theygo by the invest on the people than just on the product or the concept. Andsimilarly, if you are a job seeker again, it's not about the company, butif you establish a nitial, if you car an each for yourself, you can startlooking at companies that fit your world view and set up products that youwill represent into. For instance, I can. I can never see myself, you know aworking with an insurance company. You are working with an it management formor anything other than Martek, because this is what I relate to. This is whatI can have my strong opinions about.

This is where I am I'm feeling thatthis is my home. So I think that's that's. What is fundamentally moreimportant when you go about establishing a person's brand. To be honest with you when it comes topersonal branding, and I read a lot about the value of personal riding andhow to do it, I don't really think about it. I just do what I do so whenit comes to linking, for example, I post try to post insightful usefulcontent on a regular basis. I'm not trying to sell my services, I'm nottrying to promote my the successes that I'm had I'm not there to sell. What I'mthere to do is establish a presence to build trust, to create new relationswith with people and that build my personal brand. That allows me to bemore authentic, to be more real and for people to connect with me, and I thinkthat's the key to personal branding is, I think people try to hard. They thinkthat there is a method to the madness when, in fact, I think it's just amatter of being yourself and trying to offer value to other people. Absolutelyyou know to give you a quick story around this in a way back in twothousand and twelve, I was writing a book called. Is your marketing in sinkor sinking, and every time I write a book? I always strongly believe thatit's not just my opinions that matter, but I go about. You know interviewing alot of people around the world who have been there and done that and cast thosestories or glean into their experiences and put it into the book, and it sohappened that I connected with a guy called Chris in Netherlands, who was aco of a marketing agency there, and he gave me a twenty minute appointmentwhich went on to become a two hour conversation and fast forward sixmonths. You know he hosted me at his home like we became such good friends.He took me to the Chamber of Commerce. Like you know, we started workingtogether on a lot of projects together and you know to this year. I visit himat least once a year and spend about ten days there. You know, except exceptthe two thousand and twenty season so yeah. I really believe that, as yousaid, you know it's all about being yourself and building those honestrelationships and don't really look for a transaction. While you start, ifsomething happens, where you work into working together on something well andgood, but at the end of the day, is all about building that relationship andthat trust yeah, that's great insight. So wherecan people learn more about you and what you do you know after my house? Igive. The most time I spend on is Lington, so people can just my name islittle unique. So the moment people type in y a AG- it's I I'm hard to miss,and apart from that, you know, people can also help on to the ABMV podcast.We are a one year old podcast, but you know we managed to quickly become amongthe top. One person be be marketing podcast in the world. So, if you'reinterested in this domain catch up with us there as well thanks for listening to another episodeof marketing spark, if you enjoyed the conversation, leave your review andsubscribe by, I tunes or your favorite podcast APP for show notes of today'sconversation and information about Yag...

...visit marketing spark do co Slason ifyou'd like to suggest a guest or learn more about how I help be to be and SASScompanies as a fracas insulted, an adviser send an email to mark at markyspark I'll talk to you e t.

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