How to Master LinkedIn from a LinkedIn Guru: Moritz Lang

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

LinkedIn is a mysterious creature.

The algorithm is a well-kept secret and there are rules that should be followed to stay onside and attract engagement on the platform.

In other words, it's not as simple as writing a post and clicking "publish".

Moritz Lang is a Swedish digital marketer who has emerged as a LinkedIn "guru". 

On LinkedIn, he posts frequently on best practices and how to do the right things to create engaging content but also establish a strong presence.

For anyone looking to raise their LinkedIn game, this podcast is a must-listen.

You're listening to marketing spark, thepodcast at deliters insight, tools and tips for marketers and entrepreneurs in the trenchesin twenty five minutes or less. For the past year, Linkedin has becomethe platform to connect, comment and post content. People stand out for differentreasons. They carve out a distinct style of or voice, and one ofthem is more its Lang, a digital marketing specialist in Stockholm who spends alot of time writing about how to use linkedin better. If you're new tolinkedin looking to raise your game, morts's posts are must read. Welcome tomarketing spark. Thanks for much, what an intro. I feel very onthe to be here. Thank you. Well, I've been really impressed.Actually, take up step back. The way that I fam or its isthat I'm always looking about, looking for ways to do better on Linkedin,and I stumbled upon Meritz's posts and there were loosing with all kinds of goodstuff on how to use linkedin better, how to post better, how tocomment better, how to play with the Linkedin Algorithm, which we'll get into, and so I just thought was a natural to invite him to the podcastand I'm really glad you're here. So why do we take a step backand talk about how you got started on Linkedin? It's a question that Iask a lot of people because for a lot of us it's only something thatwe've embraced in the past year. So can you provide a little contact abouthow you may have used linkedin before and why you decided to change your approachand become much more active? For sure. Yeah, I mean you mentioned it, like many of US started recently. So same for me, or likequite recently. I had a linkedin profile for years, but and Iused to for to apply for jobs, I think, like many people do. And then when covid hit last year, I got a bit more time athand and I thought, how can you use that time, and Ikind of was appealed by by Linkedin and it was felt exciting and felt feltit kind of felt right. So I started to be more active and alsostarted to put my voice out into post about things, and in the beginningI didn't have a clue what I was doing. So it was a bigdiscovery and like exploring a lot, and to some extent that actually still is. So that is quite exciting. But over the months I also figured outa lot of things and made a lot of great connections, like yourself.So, and then I also started to share what I've learned on my way, sort of, and yeah, it's led to really beautiful things. Theone thing I'm curious about when I talk to people who are active on Linkedinand doing some amazing things and getting a lot of value from linked in,is how they explain the way that Linkedin has transformed into what it is todaycompared to a year or even eighteen months ago, when it was primarily aplace for headhunters and job seekers. At some point time things change and I'mmade people like you and me and and the millions of other people who embraceit in a different way. But can you offer any kind of explanation intowide Linkedin is the way it is and where you think it might be headingin two thousand and twenty one and two thousand and twenty two? Yeah,sure, I mean it's mostly specule letting, of course, but I think thatthat's just didn't did a really good job in bringing together people who whohave similar interests and also like like that's the marketing thing, right, sobe where your audience is. So kind of a kind of attracted itself,right. So I think that's why people started to be more active and becauseif you post, is if you if you do post and you share yourviews, it's a way of putting yourself...

...out there and to show people yourexpertise. So if you have the attention already. So people were looking forjobs and you had companies who were posting jobs and looking for people, andwe're posting about their accomplishments. So you had the attention. They already sothen people start to make use a bit more by posting their own contents andshowing, yeah, the expertise and also connecting, right. So I thinkthat's the main reason, probably, and I think linkedin will continue to doso, because I don't see any platform that's like can really compete with that. But yeah, it's going to be interesting to see and I think linkedin'salso doing a little of changes, like now they start to do more events. Linked in life is also not too old. So it's really exciting actuallywhere where this will will go and that there's a lot of opportunities. That'sthe one thing that I'm sure about. Yeah, I mean I think thatMicrosoft has the tiger on by the tail with Linkedin. I mean, whoknew when it bought it for twenty six billion dollars at Linkedin was going toturn into what it is? And one of the things that I that Ithink is going to happen is there's so much runway for Linkedin to get betteror to move into new things, and I think there's a lot of excitingthings. I had into two thousand and twenty one. One of the thingswant to ask you totally is is just to get a sense of how you'reoperating on linked to. So how did you decide that you were going tofocus or spend a lot of time writing about how to use linkedin better?WAS IT by designed? Did you sort of see an opportunity to step intothis role? Did you start writing posts about how to use linkedin that resonated? What was it that Donna you? This is what I should be doing, this is how I can carve out a distinct audience on Linkedin. Maybewas there a method to the madness? I guess that's what I'm asking.Well, I think it's kind of both, like was a lot of coincidence because, as I said, I was just sharing what I learned and whatI learned about how linkedin works. So I was observing other people what theywere doing, and also following other people who were posting about, you know, some like kind sort of little linkedin tips and tricks, and I startedto share that and also to think and to learn myself. Right, sowhen you start to post, you learn a lot about what works what doesn'twork. So I sat to share that and I got a lot of responseto that and then that, and I'm really also interested in intrigued by whatworks, you know, like kind of figure it out like the secret sauce. So, being so intrigued by it, I really dug into what it isthat I can do to make my network grow and get more likes andcomments. Of course, that's what you aim for, Right Wright? First, yeah, so like a bit of chance, but then also kind ofpositive reinforcement, I would say. So I'm going to ask you a difficultquestion and its surrounds the Linkedin Algorithm, which is a mystery to me.It's a complete mystery. I have no idea how it works, why somepost resonate and some the FA flat, why people who rate one line postget tremendous engagement and other posts don't get any at all. What do youknow about the algorithm, like what kind of secrets can you tell us,because Linkedin, to be honest, doesn't say much at all. It's almostlike they've got this secret and they really don't want to tell anyone because forwhatever reason. Do you have any thoughts on what makes the Algorithm work?What makes content resonate? I mean, I always say from the START Iactually thought about what kind of ice. I try to think logically from theLinkedin Algorithm. So what would make sense for the algorithm to to want toshow? So basically, starting from the high goal of Linkedin wanting you tospend as much time on the platform as possible, right, because that's oneof the main ways that they make money.

So the algorithm ones to show everyuser basically content that interest them and they will keep their attention on theplatform. So by providing this kind of content, you will automatically be showna lot and then it's about figuring out what kind of content the people thatyou were speaking to or that you want to speak to will capture their attention. So I think one of the most important things, and that's that's notreally a secret, but like the you know, when you have the firstfew lines so of your of your post, these are like the most important wordsit can write, because you want to draw people in and then alsomake people spend time on your post. Like since half a year or something, and the dwell time is has has become much more important. So Ireally try to also have, like you know, like a sort of storyto tell and be be interesting. But you first you have to capture people'sattention and of course that works also really good if you're providing consistent content.So if you know, okay, more it's just posting, and I've readhis previous posts and they were quite interesting. My my first lines kind of don'tneed so much power to convince anymore because you will automatically think that youwant to read my post. So, like being consistent, I think,helps, and also building real relationships. So if you like, if peopleknow and like you, they're much more likely to read your post. Andif it don't, if they if they don't like you. So I thinkthese are like little things to keep in mind. Of course there's a tonof things that you should keep your mind, like making the post more readable,for so using a lot of white space, sort of hitting enter alot, so that's easy to read and not like huge text blogs, usingsome emojis maybe to make it more appealing, asking questions so that people also startto write comments, which also counts as sort of the twelve time,I suppose at least, and also gives other people something to read. Sothere's a lot of like little things that that it can do, of course, but I always start to think from the main, from the main reasoningof what does linkedin wants, what do they want to promote, and howcan I sort of, yeah, provide that in a way not only toappeal linked them, but also to help me and also the people that Iwant to talk to, because, I mean, it has to be interestingfor them. So it's a win win sort of. Yeah, exactly.When I was a journalist, the first line of any article we called itthe lead, and at you wrote a great lead, then people might readthe rest of the story, and the same thing applies to linkedin. Oneof the things I want to ask you about in terms of dwell time andcapturing people's attention, what are your thoughts on a post that also include likean image or a carousel or a gift things that would make a post standout. Are those a good thing to use from time to time? Are theydistracting? Because I've heard different schools of thoughts. Some people say text onlyis the way to go and some people say text plus visual is also effective. Any thoughts on that? I'm personally a big fan of mixing things up, so I vary a lot between my content, with least I I tryto. Having said that, I think most of my post, I uhouldprobably text based and text plus image. And since a few months I discoveredthe slide, the carousel post because, like I said, like it keepspeople's attention more so if people like read your post and then also they scrollthrough the slides you have text on them, this will these are all signals thatpeople are sending. So if they slide, this is a signal forthe algorithm that's a good post, right. So you want to provide sort ofthe the algorithm these kind of signals so that they so that the algorithmvalue is your post better. So carousels...

...are definitely something. I want toget more into video. So this is one of my big challenges for thisyear, because I think you can get to know people much much better,like having seen someone's face, having heard their voice, you can relate somuch better, and that's what it's about in the end, right. Sohaving a good like mix. I also do some gifts sometimes. I thinkthey're kind of fun and they kind of also capture the attention right. Soit's really about experimenting what works and being open to try new things, myopinion, you know, I'd use video from time to time. Probably,like you, should use it a lot more. What I found with videois it's hard sometimes to figure out whether it resonates or not. So Icould do it text post and, let's say, get a thousand views.I could do a video post and get two hundred views, and I'm notsure how linkedin counts a video view, but I do agree with you thatit does put your personality front and Center. It's a way of people connecting withyou, even if they're not connected, because they can see that you're areal person. They can they can hear you, they can read yourbody language and it does help you build a personality and I guess on Linkedinthat's a really important thing to do. Videos used to be like a lotmore. You could look more reach, but they're not anymore. So it'sa bit yeah, bad above maybe you know, like you never know,maybe linkedin will change their storge again. I don't know why. We justhave little reach now, but I think it's still worth a to put somevideos and some people only do video. So yeah, yeah, I gotlike Chris Walker, for example, only does video, but he has videoand test and he's done really well and he's been doing that for years.So he's got an audience there and you got to believe that Linkedin was somewherewithin the algorithm. It's as showcase Chris Walker's videos and that's how he doeswell exactly. So let's if this is a little bit and talk about ifyou're getting started on Linkedin, if you've been on the sidelines or you've beensort of in and out a little bit and you're looking to embrace it intwo thousand and twenty one, what are the fundamentals in terms of getting started? Where do I get started? What should I do out of the gateso that I can get some momentum, feel like it's working for me andthen really start to jump into the platform? That's a good point that you mentioned. Feel like it's working for me, because I think without positive reinforcement's kinhard to keep it up for a longer time. I would say there'sa few elements here, but having a decent profile, at least that youknow I having a picture, having a background image and the like. Adecent bio doesn't have to be perfect. I would never aim for perfect andmine is far from perfect actually, but just something that tells people what youdo, your skills, your your experiences, so that if they check you outtthen they they they can connect to you. That's like the base.And then it's about getting engaged with other people's post so you don't need topost yourself from the start. I think commenting is there's a lot of valueand you can build great relationships and when you do that, I would Iwould also focus on big creators, so people who have a lot of following, so that if you post a smart, common many people will actually see it, right. So you put your face out there and it's also therejust trying to add value to the conversation. So that's that should always be themain principle, full sort of that you always try to add value toother people and to the conversation. So starting to engage with other people's postsand if you then decide to post your own contents, then I would sayjust get started one like nothing should hold you back. You should just goahead and get started and make these experiences, because you learn by by doing andthen also observing, analyzing what what...

...works, and also doing that withother people's content. So that's that's what I did a lot, analyzing whatlike other people did and then just experimenting with it myself. Yeah, oneof the things that I see when people talk about creating content on Linkedin asthey overthink it. They spend a lot of time what kind of content shouldI post? How well should it be written? And they they look atstructure and topics and then they end up not doing it. And my adviceto a lot of people is just do it right content. You'll get betterin time and it's always about adding value. And the other thing I would say, just relating to your thing about comments, is comments are powerful.It used to be when blogging first started that commenting was amazing. A lotof the value and a blog post was the comments, and that's one ofthe things I could on Linkedin is that people are enthusiastic about comments and that'swhat keeps you going as as a writer. Totally, totally, I agree.I really love because what what I do is actually I sort of testideas that have right and I test he what does this? So I giveadvice and I think some is valuable, some maybe up, but I alwaysget feedback right. So I improve my ideas and this is by other peoplecommenting on it or even damming me. That's actually one tip that I forgot, that you should build real connections with people by sending direct messages and,you know, starting to build relationships. That's that's with the real value lies. Yeah, and I would add that, in addition to content comments, andthe other one is conversations, is the fact that if you engage withsomebody and you feel like you've got things in scent in common, you shouldreach out to them and you should connect to them first and then reached outto them and say I like your content, I like I'm curious about what youdo. Would you be open to a conversation? And that's the secretsauce out there is that a lot of people are very happy to talk topeople. If they sent a connection and and that's something I would encourage alot of people to do. Absolutely, yeah, and you build so greatrelationships with it and it's so rewarding. Right, yeah, it's right.Can definitely that's a great value of LID and if you've been on Linkedin fora while, let's say, people like myself, who have been creating contentand you're doing well and more commenting and making connections, Jimmy Tips and howto up your game, like how do I get even better at Linkedin?You know you don't want to be doing the same things all the time.You always want to be looking for ways to improve and iterate and just doa better job. Any thoughts about how people who use linkedin can even getbetter at it? I think that depends a lot on your goals, sowhat you want to achieve. So there there's no general answer here, Iguess. But what I see other people doing is, for example, alsotrying not again, different content for formats, so trying to do video, tryingto do this kind of conversation, so building real relationships. And whatI see other people do who are who, who I would say are successful onLinkedin, they try to make the audience their own. So, likethe transferring their linkedin audience to into an owned audience by having an email listor promoting some kind of offer that you might be offering, like an ebookor like a private community, or taking them to other platforms. This iswhat I see people do. It's something that I look into, but I'mnot really there yet. But I think that's how you can get even morevalue out of Linkedin if, if that's what you want. Yeah, oneof the things that I'm looking at is forming some kind of mastermind group orsome kind of sort of private community, or I can connect with five orten people to provide insight into all kinds of things about marketing and positioning.So, yeah, I'm definitely with you...

...there. I wanted to talk alittle bit about how people who have done well on Linkedin are can leverage otherplatforms and in particular, and talking about clubhouse, which is the hot newaudio only platform that has captured the imagination of many hardcore linkedin users over thepast month or so. What are your thoughts about being all in on Linkedin, doing a great job on Linkedin, and then suddenly this other thing emerges, this other social network, and you also want to be there as well, so I see a lot of people spending a lot of time on clubhouseand wondering how much time they're actually spending on Linkedin, which is very goodfor them over the last year. Any thoughts on clubhouse and trying to splityour your attention between two different platforms? Yeah, that's a very good point. That's where I'm actually also still wondering whether I should do more clubhouse ornot. For now, I decided not to and more like listening, spenda little bit of time to get to know the platform. I think youcan use it with soon as you though, so you can sort of take youryour linkedin connections to the next level by again, they hear they hearyour voice, they hear you talk, they you get them to real conversationswith them. So I think sort of like, for example, creating aroom and telling your connections about it so that they can check it out ifthey're interested, you build much better connections and then also you leverage the connectionof other people that you talk with. Right. I think that's and thusyou increase your linkedin audience as well, because if you, if, forexample, we both would have a room, your audience or like your network wouldbasically get to know me as well, and then I think there should bea big connection to Linkedin, though. I somehow heard like that clubhouse issort of the afterparty of and Linkedin this the conference, which I kindof liked actually that that image. So kind of like, you know,building the pixs of the networking happens on clubhouse, but the business happens onLinkedin. Yeah, so making use of that. It is interesting because there'sclubhouse allows you to link to connect to twitter and Instagram, but there's nolinkedin connection for whatever reason. So you're seeing people this hack that goes onwhere people will connect with people on clubhouse and then circle back and connect withthem on Linkedin and then try to get a conversation going. So it's abit balking right now, but I'm sure that clubhouse will figure it out.If linkedin let's it. Finally, the last thing I want to watch abouthis personal branding. You know, on Linkedin there's a lot of talk aboutpersonal branding and had a why to build a personal brandon. How to dowhat are your thoughts about Leveragey, what we already thoughts on personal branding thesedays and why it's attracting so much attention. I think personal branding is a topicthat's getting more and more important and Linkedin is a great place to buildup your personal brand, combined with many other platforms as well. But Ithink personal brand is that you that people put you put yourself into people's mindas some kind of expert in some areas. So you want to decide, likewhat kind of person you want to be, how you want to beperceived, and then that also ties in with a with the content strategy,so that you post about these things that you want people to associate you with, and I think it gets more more important as, like people look toyou know, become more attractive to employers or if they are freelancing or havetheir own companies, sort of, you know, get more get more attentionthere as well. So I think that's the main reason to sort of getmore attention online. Great, well, thanks more. It's for apparent onthe podcast and for your inside about Linkedin and clubhouse and all things, theother things that we talked about. Where...

...can people learn more about you?So far? It's definitely on Linkedin. That we would have thought obvious question, and I'm also it's Lee in the the process of setting up my ownlike website. So that's going to be at Moula marketing dot pro but it'snot there yet, but I hope in a few weeks that I'm going tobe up there and people can connect with me there. Hey, great,so this this will keep me accountable for anyone listening to this podcast. Ifyou are looking for insight on how to get better with Linkedin, then youshould definitely follow morits, if not connect with him. He's got some greatcontent and string of tips on how to use linkedin in a new and differentways and learn somehow the secrets of Linkedin. Thanks for listening to other's episode ofmarketing spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, leave a review and subscribeby Itunes, spotify or your favorite podcast APP. For show notes of today'sconversation and information about more it's visit marketing spark dot cool blog. If you'dlike to learn more about how I help B TOB SASS companies as a fractionalCMO consultant and advisor, send an email to mark and marking spark dotcom.I'll talk to you next time. I.

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