How to Master LinkedIn from a LinkedIn Guru: Moritz Lang

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

LinkedIn is a mysterious creature.

The algorithm is a well-kept secret and there are rules that should be followed to stay onside and attract engagement on the platform.

In other words, it's not as simple as writing a post and clicking "publish".

Moritz Lang is a Swedish digital marketer who has emerged as a LinkedIn "guru". 

On LinkedIn, he posts frequently on best practices and how to do the right things to create engaging content but also establish a strong presence.

For anyone looking to raise their LinkedIn game, this podcast is a must-listen.

You're listening to marketing spark, the podcast at deliters insight, tools and tips for marketers and entrepreneurs in the trenches in twenty five minutes or less. For the past year, Linkedin has become the platform to connect, comment and post content. People stand out for different reasons. They carve out a distinct style of or voice, and one of them is more its Lang, a digital marketing specialist in Stockholm who spends a lot of time writing about how to use linkedin better. If you're new to linkedin looking to raise your game, morts's posts are must read. Welcome to marketing spark. Thanks for much, what an intro. I feel very on the to be here. Thank you. Well, I've been really impressed. Actually, take up step back. The way that I fam or its is that I'm always looking about, looking for ways to do better on Linkedin, and I stumbled upon Meritz's posts and there were loosing with all kinds of good stuff on how to use linkedin better, how to post better, how to comment better, how to play with the Linkedin Algorithm, which we'll get into, and so I just thought was a natural to invite him to the podcast and I'm really glad you're here. So why do we take a step back and talk about how you got started on Linkedin? It's a question that I ask a lot of people because for a lot of us it's only something that we've embraced in the past year. So can you provide a little contact about how you may have used linkedin before and why you decided to change your approach and become much more active? For sure. Yeah, I mean you mentioned it, like many of US started recently. So same for me, or like quite recently. I had a linkedin profile for years, but and I used to for to apply for jobs, I think, like many people do. And then when covid hit last year, I got a bit more time at hand and I thought, how can you use that time, and I kind of was appealed by by Linkedin and it was felt exciting and felt felt it kind of felt right. So I started to be more active and also started to put my voice out into post about things, and in the beginning I didn't have a clue what I was doing. So it was a big discovery and like exploring a lot, and to some extent that actually still is. So that is quite exciting. But over the months I also figured out a lot of things and made a lot of great connections, like yourself. So, and then I also started to share what I've learned on my way, sort of, and yeah, it's led to really beautiful things. The one thing I'm curious about when I talk to people who are active on Linkedin and doing some amazing things and getting a lot of value from linked in, is how they explain the way that Linkedin has transformed into what it is today compared to a year or even eighteen months ago, when it was primarily a place for headhunters and job seekers. At some point time things change and I'm made people like you and me and and the millions of other people who embrace it in a different way. But can you offer any kind of explanation into wide Linkedin is the way it is and where you think it might be heading in two thousand and twenty one and two thousand and twenty two? Yeah, sure, I mean it's mostly specule letting, of course, but I think that that's just didn't did a really good job in bringing together people who who have similar interests and also like like that's the marketing thing, right, so be where your audience is. So kind of a kind of attracted itself, right. So I think that's why people started to be more active and because if you post, is if you if you do post and you share your views, it's a way of putting yourself...

...out there and to show people your expertise. So if you have the attention already. So people were looking for jobs and you had companies who were posting jobs and looking for people, and we're posting about their accomplishments. So you had the attention. They already so then people start to make use a bit more by posting their own contents and showing, yeah, the expertise and also connecting, right. So I think that's the main reason, probably, and I think linkedin will continue to do so, because I don't see any platform that's like can really compete with that. But yeah, it's going to be interesting to see and I think linkedin's also doing a little of changes, like now they start to do more events. Linked in life is also not too old. So it's really exciting actually where where this will will go and that there's a lot of opportunities. That's the one thing that I'm sure about. Yeah, I mean I think that Microsoft has the tiger on by the tail with Linkedin. I mean, who knew when it bought it for twenty six billion dollars at Linkedin was going to turn into what it is? And one of the things that I that I think is going to happen is there's so much runway for Linkedin to get better or to move into new things, and I think there's a lot of exciting things. I had into two thousand and twenty one. One of the things want to ask you totally is is just to get a sense of how you're operating on linked to. So how did you decide that you were going to focus or spend a lot of time writing about how to use linkedin better? WAS IT by designed? Did you sort of see an opportunity to step into this role? Did you start writing posts about how to use linkedin that resonated? What was it that Donna you? This is what I should be doing, this is how I can carve out a distinct audience on Linkedin. Maybe was there a method to the madness? I guess that's what I'm asking. Well, I think it's kind of both, like was a lot of coincidence because, as I said, I was just sharing what I learned and what I learned about how linkedin works. So I was observing other people what they were doing, and also following other people who were posting about, you know, some like kind sort of little linkedin tips and tricks, and I started to share that and also to think and to learn myself. Right, so when you start to post, you learn a lot about what works what doesn't work. So I sat to share that and I got a lot of response to that and then that, and I'm really also interested in intrigued by what works, you know, like kind of figure it out like the secret sauce. So, being so intrigued by it, I really dug into what it is that I can do to make my network grow and get more likes and comments. Of course, that's what you aim for, Right Wright? First, yeah, so like a bit of chance, but then also kind of positive reinforcement, I would say. So I'm going to ask you a difficult question and its surrounds the Linkedin Algorithm, which is a mystery to me. It's a complete mystery. I have no idea how it works, why some post resonate and some the FA flat, why people who rate one line post get tremendous engagement and other posts don't get any at all. What do you know about the algorithm, like what kind of secrets can you tell us, because Linkedin, to be honest, doesn't say much at all. It's almost like they've got this secret and they really don't want to tell anyone because for whatever reason. Do you have any thoughts on what makes the Algorithm work? What makes content resonate? I mean, I always say from the START I actually thought about what kind of ice. I try to think logically from the Linkedin Algorithm. So what would make sense for the algorithm to to want to show? So basically, starting from the high goal of Linkedin wanting you to spend as much time on the platform as possible, right, because that's one of the main ways that they make money.

So the algorithm ones to show every user basically content that interest them and they will keep their attention on the platform. So by providing this kind of content, you will automatically be shown a lot and then it's about figuring out what kind of content the people that you were speaking to or that you want to speak to will capture their attention. So I think one of the most important things, and that's that's not really a secret, but like the you know, when you have the first few lines so of your of your post, these are like the most important words it can write, because you want to draw people in and then also make people spend time on your post. Like since half a year or something, and the dwell time is has has become much more important. So I really try to also have, like you know, like a sort of story to tell and be be interesting. But you first you have to capture people's attention and of course that works also really good if you're providing consistent content. So if you know, okay, more it's just posting, and I've read his previous posts and they were quite interesting. My my first lines kind of don't need so much power to convince anymore because you will automatically think that you want to read my post. So, like being consistent, I think, helps, and also building real relationships. So if you like, if people know and like you, they're much more likely to read your post. And if it don't, if they if they don't like you. So I think these are like little things to keep in mind. Of course there's a ton of things that you should keep your mind, like making the post more readable, for so using a lot of white space, sort of hitting enter a lot, so that's easy to read and not like huge text blogs, using some emojis maybe to make it more appealing, asking questions so that people also start to write comments, which also counts as sort of the twelve time, I suppose at least, and also gives other people something to read. So there's a lot of like little things that that it can do, of course, but I always start to think from the main, from the main reasoning of what does linkedin wants, what do they want to promote, and how can I sort of, yeah, provide that in a way not only to appeal linked them, but also to help me and also the people that I want to talk to, because, I mean, it has to be interesting for them. So it's a win win sort of. Yeah, exactly. When I was a journalist, the first line of any article we called it the lead, and at you wrote a great lead, then people might read the rest of the story, and the same thing applies to linkedin. One of the things I want to ask you about in terms of dwell time and capturing people's attention, what are your thoughts on a post that also include like an image or a carousel or a gift things that would make a post standout. Are those a good thing to use from time to time? Are they distracting? Because I've heard different schools of thoughts. Some people say text only is the way to go and some people say text plus visual is also effective. Any thoughts on that? I'm personally a big fan of mixing things up, so I vary a lot between my content, with least I I try to. Having said that, I think most of my post, I uhould probably text based and text plus image. And since a few months I discovered the slide, the carousel post because, like I said, like it keeps people's attention more so if people like read your post and then also they scroll through the slides you have text on them, this will these are all signals that people are sending. So if they slide, this is a signal for the algorithm that's a good post, right. So you want to provide sort of the the algorithm these kind of signals so that they so that the algorithm value is your post better. So carousels...

...are definitely something. I want to get more into video. So this is one of my big challenges for this year, because I think you can get to know people much much better, like having seen someone's face, having heard their voice, you can relate so much better, and that's what it's about in the end, right. So having a good like mix. I also do some gifts sometimes. I think they're kind of fun and they kind of also capture the attention right. So it's really about experimenting what works and being open to try new things, my opinion, you know, I'd use video from time to time. Probably, like you, should use it a lot more. What I found with video is it's hard sometimes to figure out whether it resonates or not. So I could do it text post and, let's say, get a thousand views. I could do a video post and get two hundred views, and I'm not sure how linkedin counts a video view, but I do agree with you that it does put your personality front and Center. It's a way of people connecting with you, even if they're not connected, because they can see that you're a real person. They can they can hear you, they can read your body language and it does help you build a personality and I guess on Linkedin that's a really important thing to do. Videos used to be like a lot more. You could look more reach, but they're not anymore. So it's a bit yeah, bad above maybe you know, like you never know, maybe linkedin will change their storge again. I don't know why. We just have little reach now, but I think it's still worth a to put some videos and some people only do video. So yeah, yeah, I got like Chris Walker, for example, only does video, but he has video and test and he's done really well and he's been doing that for years. So he's got an audience there and you got to believe that Linkedin was somewhere within the algorithm. It's as showcase Chris Walker's videos and that's how he does well exactly. So let's if this is a little bit and talk about if you're getting started on Linkedin, if you've been on the sidelines or you've been sort of in and out a little bit and you're looking to embrace it in two thousand and twenty one, what are the fundamentals in terms of getting started? Where do I get started? What should I do out of the gate so that I can get some momentum, feel like it's working for me and then really start to jump into the platform? That's a good point that you mentioned. Feel like it's working for me, because I think without positive reinforcement's kin hard to keep it up for a longer time. I would say there's a few elements here, but having a decent profile, at least that you know I having a picture, having a background image and the like. A decent bio doesn't have to be perfect. I would never aim for perfect and mine is far from perfect actually, but just something that tells people what you do, your skills, your your experiences, so that if they check you outt then they they they can connect to you. That's like the base. And then it's about getting engaged with other people's post so you don't need to post yourself from the start. I think commenting is there's a lot of value and you can build great relationships and when you do that, I would I would also focus on big creators, so people who have a lot of following, so that if you post a smart, common many people will actually see it, right. So you put your face out there and it's also there just trying to add value to the conversation. So that's that should always be the main principle, full sort of that you always try to add value to other people and to the conversation. So starting to engage with other people's posts and if you then decide to post your own contents, then I would say just get started one like nothing should hold you back. You should just go ahead and get started and make these experiences, because you learn by by doing and then also observing, analyzing what what...

...works, and also doing that with other people's content. So that's that's what I did a lot, analyzing what like other people did and then just experimenting with it myself. Yeah, one of the things that I see when people talk about creating content on Linkedin as they overthink it. They spend a lot of time what kind of content should I post? How well should it be written? And they they look at structure and topics and then they end up not doing it. And my advice to a lot of people is just do it right content. You'll get better in time and it's always about adding value. And the other thing I would say, just relating to your thing about comments, is comments are powerful. It used to be when blogging first started that commenting was amazing. A lot of the value and a blog post was the comments, and that's one of the things I could on Linkedin is that people are enthusiastic about comments and that's what keeps you going as as a writer. Totally, totally, I agree. I really love because what what I do is actually I sort of test ideas that have right and I test he what does this? So I give advice and I think some is valuable, some maybe up, but I always get feedback right. So I improve my ideas and this is by other people commenting on it or even damming me. That's actually one tip that I forgot, that you should build real connections with people by sending direct messages and, you know, starting to build relationships. That's that's with the real value lies. Yeah, and I would add that, in addition to content comments, and the other one is conversations, is the fact that if you engage with somebody and you feel like you've got things in scent in common, you should reach out to them and you should connect to them first and then reached out to them and say I like your content, I like I'm curious about what you do. Would you be open to a conversation? And that's the secret sauce out there is that a lot of people are very happy to talk to people. If they sent a connection and and that's something I would encourage a lot of people to do. Absolutely, yeah, and you build so great relationships with it and it's so rewarding. Right, yeah, it's right. Can definitely that's a great value of LID and if you've been on Linkedin for a while, let's say, people like myself, who have been creating content and you're doing well and more commenting and making connections, Jimmy Tips and how to up your game, like how do I get even better at Linkedin? You know you don't want to be doing the same things all the time. You always want to be looking for ways to improve and iterate and just do a better job. Any thoughts about how people who use linkedin can even get better at it? I think that depends a lot on your goals, so what you want to achieve. So there there's no general answer here, I guess. But what I see other people doing is, for example, also trying not again, different content for formats, so trying to do video, trying to do this kind of conversation, so building real relationships. And what I see other people do who are who, who I would say are successful on Linkedin, they try to make the audience their own. So, like the transferring their linkedin audience to into an owned audience by having an email list or promoting some kind of offer that you might be offering, like an ebook or like a private community, or taking them to other platforms. This is what I see people do. It's something that I look into, but I'm not really there yet. But I think that's how you can get even more value out of Linkedin if, if that's what you want. Yeah, one of the things that I'm looking at is forming some kind of mastermind group or some kind of sort of private community, or I can connect with five or ten people to provide insight into all kinds of things about marketing and positioning. So, yeah, I'm definitely with you...

...there. I wanted to talk a little bit about how people who have done well on Linkedin are can leverage other platforms and in particular, and talking about clubhouse, which is the hot new audio only platform that has captured the imagination of many hardcore linkedin users over the past month or so. What are your thoughts about being all in on Linkedin, doing a great job on Linkedin, and then suddenly this other thing emerges, this other social network, and you also want to be there as well, so I see a lot of people spending a lot of time on clubhouse and wondering how much time they're actually spending on Linkedin, which is very good for them over the last year. Any thoughts on clubhouse and trying to split your your attention between two different platforms? Yeah, that's a very good point. That's where I'm actually also still wondering whether I should do more clubhouse or not. For now, I decided not to and more like listening, spend a little bit of time to get to know the platform. I think you can use it with soon as you though, so you can sort of take your your linkedin connections to the next level by again, they hear they hear your voice, they hear you talk, they you get them to real conversations with them. So I think sort of like, for example, creating a room and telling your connections about it so that they can check it out if they're interested, you build much better connections and then also you leverage the connection of other people that you talk with. Right. I think that's and thus you increase your linkedin audience as well, because if you, if, for example, we both would have a room, your audience or like your network would basically get to know me as well, and then I think there should be a big connection to Linkedin, though. I somehow heard like that clubhouse is sort of the afterparty of and Linkedin this the conference, which I kind of liked actually that that image. So kind of like, you know, building the pixs of the networking happens on clubhouse, but the business happens on Linkedin. Yeah, so making use of that. It is interesting because there's clubhouse allows you to link to connect to twitter and Instagram, but there's no linkedin connection for whatever reason. So you're seeing people this hack that goes on where people will connect with people on clubhouse and then circle back and connect with them on Linkedin and then try to get a conversation going. So it's a bit balking right now, but I'm sure that clubhouse will figure it out. If linkedin let's it. Finally, the last thing I want to watch about his personal branding. You know, on Linkedin there's a lot of talk about personal branding and had a why to build a personal brandon. How to do what are your thoughts about Leveragey, what we already thoughts on personal branding these days and why it's attracting so much attention. I think personal branding is a topic that's getting more and more important and Linkedin is a great place to build up your personal brand, combined with many other platforms as well. But I think personal brand is that you that people put you put yourself into people's mind as some kind of expert in some areas. So you want to decide, like what kind of person you want to be, how you want to be perceived, and then that also ties in with a with the content strategy, so that you post about these things that you want people to associate you with, and I think it gets more more important as, like people look to you know, become more attractive to employers or if they are freelancing or have their own companies, sort of, you know, get more get more attention there as well. So I think that's the main reason to sort of get more attention online. Great, well, thanks more. It's for apparent on the podcast and for your inside about Linkedin and clubhouse and all things, the other things that we talked about. Where...

...can people learn more about you? So far? It's definitely on Linkedin. That we would have thought obvious question, and I'm also it's Lee in the the process of setting up my own like website. So that's going to be at Moula marketing dot pro but it's not there yet, but I hope in a few weeks that I'm going to be up there and people can connect with me there. Hey, great, so this this will keep me accountable for anyone listening to this podcast. If you are looking for insight on how to get better with Linkedin, then you should definitely follow morits, if not connect with him. He's got some great content and string of tips on how to use linkedin in a new and different ways and learn somehow the secrets of Linkedin. Thanks for listening to other's episode of marketing spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, leave a review and subscribe by Itunes, spotify or your favorite podcast APP. For show notes of today's conversation and information about more it's visit marketing spark dot cool blog. If you'd like to learn more about how I help B TOB SASS companies as a fractional CMO consultant and advisor, send an email to mark and marking spark dotcom. I'll talk to you next time. I.

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