Lately: The Software That Blew Me Away

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

I have been working with B2B SaaS companies since 2008. I can honestly say that few of them have struck as truly innovative. Many of them were cool but they didn't blow me away.

Lately is an exception to the rule. When I learned what it can do, it resonated as a game-changer.

The company turns content (blog posts, eBooks, video) into social media posts. It takes the painful, time-consuming work out of creating updates for multiple social media networks.

Imagine the ROI from being able to create social media content at scale effortlessly.

In this episode of Marketing Spark, I spoke with Lately co-founder and CEO Kate Chernis about her journey from popular DJ to marketing to SaaS entrepreneur.

We explored the personal struggles that Kate endured in the music industry, why she backed away from raising money because she believed the VCs weren't treating her in the same way as male entrepreneurs, and how to operate a business remotely. 

It's Mark Evans and you're listening tomarkets park, the podcast idlers insight from marketers andentrepreneurs in the trenches, be twenty five minutes or less. When I started my consulting businessin two thousand and eight one of my first clients was systems. When I wentto see a stockwork, I was blown away by how it could monitor Social Vediactivity on face book and twitter. It was at the time mind blow when youheard about lately. It was Deja who, all over again, it's technology whichturns centene into social media updates is impressive and its customer growthhas been astounding. I'm excited to have kate, charnes, lately's, Co,founder and Co on the podcast. Welcome to marketing spark thank ye so muchmark. I actually got some goose bumps there for a second, because I know what it feels like tosee something and be like you know. Oh my gosh and it's a fun feeling becauseyou want to you want a piece of it. You know you want to be in the club and allthe time that I've been doing marketing for B Tobas companies. I can't I can'tsay I've been blown away that often once in a while, you come across theservice and you go man. This is super impressive, in fact so impressive. Iwish I was working for this company, but and that's the thing that I gotwhen I saw lately, it really is a pretty as touny piece of software andthat's why I was so excited to have you on the podcast or really get into theplatform and your story, which is very interesting. Talk about your view ofsocial media and content, marketing and all the things that are impactingmarketing these days. Why don't we start by talking about what lately doesand why a growing number of companies are enthusiastically embracing it. Imean this is a. This is a product that won a lot of companies, C D andagencies. For that matter, it's a must, have yeah well. Thank you. First of all,thank you so much a all of those super nice compliments there, I'm absorbingthem they're washing all over me. So what lately does is, essentially,you can up load a file, a video file or podcast or any kind of long formcontent, whether it's writing or audio or video, and you push a button insidelately and lately instantly atomies that content into sometimes hundreds ofdifferent social posts now the sex year. Part that's happening in the backgroundthat you don't see is it's also studying all of your analytics acrossany social channel. You connect to its brain and it's looking for the highestengaging posts that you have and then it builds a writing model based onliterally the DNA, the words that make up those posts and it's applying thatsame writing model to the lung, firm content. You feed it so before itatomies, it's choosing which things to pull out right and that's how it gets.Customers like Gary Vaner check, you guys, know him right. Twelve thousand percent increase anengagement because it's you know it's really smart and the more you put inthe better you get out right so and Gary has a lot of content to to feed us one of the interesting things aboutlately. Is there well there's many interesting things about lately, butthere's no lack of social media tools out there and lots of companies areapplying ai to their technology, and this is a tough question for you toanswer, because you're, obviously biased being the CEO. But why has itsay, made such an impact and such a splash there's no lack of choices outthere and I'm sure there's other tools that may do something similar. Can youexplain the phenomena for I love being called the phenonema? I think it's totwo things number one we've been at this for a long time. Market didn'thappen overnight and we've been banging our heads against the wall even to make sure we were describinghow what we're selling- and you guys just heard me describe it, and it's noteasy, and I'm not really that good at it, but believe me, I'm so much betterthan I was last year or the year before, and part of that is because we watchedour customers to see which part of the platform you guys were all using togive us information right, and it's a...

...very robust platform and the thing thatpeople kept gravatic into was this atomizing composent component right,and so that was interesting to us and people liked it, and we were. We wereonly doing it with text right, so you could pop in a link to a blog push abutton and you get forty social past posts instantly. But when we added thevideo clip component that really changed everything, and I think it'sbecause it's for a couple reasons and mean- and we had coved at the same timehere right. So first thing that happened was Gary v saw lately in thatform. He'd seen it before, but he saw in that form and instantly built hishis twitter channel to team Gary V. Out of that. So now I didn't have to tellpeople what I did any more. I could show them that was big right number.Two was I mean we, it's scale the UNSCALABLE. This is whatGary says and he's right. We do everything the hard way, because thehard way is what works Mark Right. So there's a reason. When you met M M Benwho was on our team, you got a thirty minute demo. We treat you just like. Wewould treat an enterprise customer because I know how to make evangelists. You knowwe were talking about this off air or a second ago, but I used to be a rock andWorld Dja and my last Gig was broadcasting to twenty millionlisteners a day for x m, and I was really amazing at making listeners into fans right because fans evangelists they do the hard work for you right. Sowe figured early on as a small company. I don't have a big budget to spend onmarketing. How am I going to make the noise I need to make one by one right and that's what we'vedone so the community around us is really driving. The ship will also help to have Gary v. As as anagaist I mean that's, that's you have a smoke community in a GARV, then thenyou're well off now, maybe- and I've got background information. SoI'm looking you to tell the story about the way that he's using the platformand the results that he's seen now, the guys everywhere I mean he produces aton of content. You he's got a lot of ammunition that he can or a lot of fuelthat he can feed into the lately. You know machine, but maybe give a littlebit of a few details about how he is using it and what the difference editsmade on his marketing machine yeah I mean you know. What's interesting is sogary doesn't need lately to be honest right. They he has his own army, buthe's clearly a poster boy for lately, because his advice to you and me, andeveryone else- is to repurpose and take your long, firm content and atomize itright, and so he knows that and though it's interesting, I was just talking toto their team now, because we're trying to figure out like actually what is theuse case for team Gary v. When he's not really my target, you know they do see a twelve thousand percentincrease in engagement and that's so much because the more you teach the AIand the more you give it the faster I can learn, but also because there'sthat pain of unlock mark right and you have this pain. I certainly had it justimagine the time it takes for you to create a blog right, it's about threeor four hours of writing time, and then you have to promote it most people kind of mail it in right there. They doone or two social posts and that's it and to me and to Gary that's a hugewaste of time. So like that unlock idea like how do we not just toss into thewind, the time is taking me and you to record this podcast right now right,and so I learned that it's, the the after the fact marketing is infinitely more valuable than Butsonseats right and Gary knows that also that's why he atomies his content likecrazy and he's trying to milk it for every. You know everything it's worth, I thinkof it as like of like garlic rike, I...

...was just chopping garlic last night andI every little bit that is on my knife has to make it into the pan. You knowI'm kind of because it took me a long time. You know to do that. I don't want tolose those morsels. So that's that's partially. Why is as well- and you know,as we've been growing the company we have to go up before we can go downlike sales for us right, so my job now is to sell the larger companies so that therecan be a time where I can create a long tail and sell to all of Gary's fansright for, like some normal price, like twenty or forty dollars right. That'sthat's what I want and we will get there and the best part about workingwith him by the way is like knowing knowing that that that there's both a long tale of thatsmaller customer and then there's a larger customer like all of the vainermeter, clients right- and we have these client both of these clients, which I'mjust hangin ing a little bit. But it's all connected this has been part of ourstruggle is like who is late, leese customer, you know, and it does varyfrom small, medium and large customers. It's not micro, customers, micro,marketers right but yeah. So it's the learning experiencesyou can tell it ever present and slightly overwhelming well got thething about being an a trepe. It's a classic line, be careful what you wishfor, because it might happen right and we might. It does remind me of system. So whensystemous came out of the University of Toronto, there was a tenure professorand her Super Smart, Ph d student and they developed this technology and now,as we got this better mouse trap like who do we sell it to, and in their casethey went to PR agencies who had clients and the clients wanted to buy asocial, medium monitoring tool and they thought as a might, to make anopportunity. The agencies would buy once and sell it again and again andagain and then the brands came around and said you know we like this tool aswell, so what system os did as they created a like version like you?Couldn't it wasn't everything but the sink kitchen sink? It was just arestricted version. Also he two products and that's the that's. Thecurious thing about lately right now is: Who is your customer? I mean other thanGary v? Is it agencies? Is it enterprise customers? Is it guys, likeGary v? Who are one man bands I mean? Do you have an ideal customer right nowor is it basically anybody? You can ted the bills yeah, so we just went through this andwe do what it's called a right size, press pricing with one of our advisorsright, size, pricing, that's it and really started to spell out. Who is thepersonality of the customer? So we lately again is a very robust platform.It's not just a one trick pony and the reason we did that is so that we can ofappeal to all these customers. So we have what I call social animal. So thatis that one man or one woman band, who not only creates content and has youknow it on Nauseam, but the pain in the pain of unlocking, but also is someonewho's publishing on twitter or Linkin like several times a day every dayright. So those are one kind of customer. Wework with agencies as well, because we give them a lot of ability to publishacross all the places and marketing planning and all those kinds of thingsand analytics, but really easy for them to have a single log. An so you knowthey can access. If they have. You know two hundred customers or five customerswho had twenty channels each. It's really easy for them to bounce in andout, but our Lord or customers mark are people that really want to do marketingfor other employees in the company who don't know a thing about marketing, solately has what we call it's like a hubbins feature or or parent child. Soone parent, like a C M, can use the AI to create content for any employeecould be sales. People it could be. Employee advocates could be executives.You know anyone who wants to talk about...

...the company and social but doesn't wantto make a mistake, and then the auto generation can literally publish thatcontent on their behalf without the member having to deal with it or it cangive them the ability to edit and customize it as they like. So that'show we are able to sell tens, hundreds, thousands oflicenses into a single company and we market for them all the same way by theway right right. So that's the that's the the lucky trick before you sort of dive into theplatform itself. Maybe you just get you to elaborate a little more in the backstory. No there's two angles here: one is the back story of you, the big timed j like how did that happen? Where did you start that kind of thing? And theother thing is that from what I've heard lately isn't a company that wascreated by a couple of Geek engineers working in a basement fuel by Red Ball.This is a different type of founder story, which I find Nadi pecularly ontoday we were recording this. This episode International Ones Day, so thisis this is the time it is pretty good talk about both stories. I mean you'vegot two careers, both super successful. How did that happen? Oh I thank you so much it doesn't. Itdoesn't feel like that when you're in it, you know because you're just alwaysalways in the slog or I am- I have that special gift of seeing the glass youknow half empty, but yeah. You know in radio. I wasreally lucky mark because I was in a format. It's called adult, albumalternative or triple a and it's designed to play the albums that you have at home. I'mforty seven. So you know I'm old enough to have albums and meaning you knoweverything from rock to folk to blues rege. You know that kind of mix, butthen also the album cuts, not just like the radio singles, which is also whatwe often like, and that radio really focused on a theater of the mind andmeaning the listener's obligation to fill in the blanks right to participatein that conversation and then my job as the Dja is a host. The programmer tomake you feel like you, have a voice, even though I'm the one with the MikeRight- and this is what we talked about making listeners into fans you know so, as Iwas learning how to do that, I learned something about the neuro science ofmusic. That tells you when you listen to a new song mark. Your brain mustinstantly access every other song you've ever heard before in order toplace that new song in your memory branks into your library in your brainand when it does that it immediately taps into nostalgia right. So this rushof emotion comes forward when you, when you hear music, because it's your brainis looking for the familiar touch points to know where to put that song and your voices is a frequency. So whenyou hear me or when you read the text, I wrote or the tecon else wrote youhear their voice in their head. Your head right same idea and your brain islooking to put in some context to make it familiar, and this is all sales aremarketing. I'm trying to sell you something new put it into a contextthat you're going to feel comfortable right, trust me and then buy it, and sothis all ties into our ai right, as you can see so from from radio. So here I was at exam, I'min this wacky format. We were not live, actually we were recorded, but we leftin a lot of mistakes and did other things to be perceived as live to again,create that trust factor that human element. You know, and it wasn't the right move. I wasn'tin the right place and the universe was trying to tell me you know so I was Iwas a boys club. I was...

...sexually harassed every day. My one ofthe things my boss would always say to me was Hey Bradley: Are Your HandsClean Meaning? Can you hold my deck? Will I P yeah real talk here right and even Iparticipated in the sexual harassment because it was part of the culture itwas normal. You know we didn't know this, is you know two thousand and fouror five six, so the language me to wasn't around and there was a hostilework environment which I didn't even know what that was- and I just remembertelling like family and friends like you know, this is so stressful. Youknow my my boss would like be yelling at me in the little sound booth andlike I would just absorb it. You know and not yelling at me, but ye yellingabout whatever going on it was just so tense and my body was starting to shoutat me and I have I had all these ailments. I was incapacitatedeventually, I couldn't type at all without any pain without extreme painlike debilitating pain, and this is a long story, but so I was scared o mark, because suddenly Icouldn't work, you know everything was on computer. Everything was email andyou know, mixing songs like the sound files were seeing right now go by uslike I had to touch those every day and I couldn't any more so I got I learnedabout Dragon, naturally speaking, which is the voice activated software I useto day I don't type to day. I use my voice. Isn't that Ironic, I'm stilltalking and for interesting, so I learned how to use it and x am didn'tbelieve me because my hands looked fine, it didn't look like there was somethingwrong and people didn't know about epicides and ten. A night is really,and so I moved to another music company and I was the same thing. Another boy'sClub and nobody believed me that something was wrong with me and I crieda lot. I was really angry and scared and frustrated, and Ididn't know what to do and my dad had enough and one day he I was just cryinguncontrollably. I used to smoke a lot of cigarettes to so. As you know, I waslike pig pen but full of anger. You know what I mean Yeah and my dad. Justlovingly shook me by the shoulders and said you can't work for other people.There's no shame in that, and so a light went on. Obviously- and I thoughtOh, oh there's another way did not knowthat and my husband was so thoughtful withmy boyfriend at the time he went out to the book store and bought me Guy KosaksArt of the start. Do that book, Yeah Yeah, Yeah Yeah. It is reallyinteresting to see how people fall into entrepreneurship. Some people are not anurse right from the GUT. You know, they've got lemonade, stands they're,find ten packs, O gum for a dollar and sending them for twenty five cents.Each I mean and people like you and I do it by accent different. Is it's notmy design? I never thought I'd be an entrepreneur. I was a journalist, Ilove being a journalist and something and then I wasn't a journalist any more.I was an entrepreneur. Do you find like that? I need this catalyst all the timelike that. As I look so my dad was one there's a been a number of people whosee something. I don't see, and I I need them to point it out to me. Youknow so that and that's what changes the channel is, that awareness that Ididn't have for some reason. You know yeah well, I was, I was a long time inplay. I like being an employer like getting a pay check. It was all goodand then I got laid off and I got a severance package and I said to my wife:You know if I had got six months rather than three months. I do my own thing. Iwould hang up my own shingle and I would become a consultant and she said,and the word she said to me. I always remember that she said well. Why don'tyou make three months severance last for six months, the wrong thing and that's what I didthat a mis. That idea is like working...

...for people, I'm not sure if the peopleyou're working for were assholes or not, but like that was a light bulb to me-is like the the literally the pain of working for for in an environment wherethat was happening versus the quote. Pain of not knowing where your next paycheck was coming from the first one was was way worse right, whereas for some people it's not thecase, it's terrifying to not know where your paycheck s going to if you'regoing to get one or not right. Well, that's why not everybody's anentrepreneur, because it's a twenty four seven, always on great highs andgreat lows, and if you can't handle it then do something else get a day check.You went from from that, and your boyfriend soon to be husband, said,do something else what happened, because I eventually you ended up doingmarketing. How did you go from Dja to marketing? Was it by design or do youjust kind of fall into it more falling yeah so so that week, somy dad said work for someone else. Work for yourself and David got me the bookand the next day I met a couple of angel investors by accident. I didn'tknow that they were angel investors and they essentially said we love you. Let'sstart a company, here's fifty tousend bucks. We were off and we started amusic taste making company. I was like a miniature radio online and, as I wasmarketing that my aunt said, you know you're really good atmarketing. That would you come and consult this project. I'm working onwill pay you a lot of money, more money than you're making, and you know youcan say good bye to the music industry and that sounded really good to me mark. So she put me on the Walmart Account Nice Nice Way to starve. That was pretty lucky and- and you knowI came at that- this is again two thousand and seven now so this was okay, so marketers we'regoing to neart out for a second here. This was Walmart and all of theirfranchises and IRS and united were way world wideand all of their franchises Plus Bank of America and there's an Etat intheirs. So there was almost twenty thousand people involved by the end of the project who allwanted to help promote. There was a good cause. I was to help lift the poorout of poverty through financial education and Walmart owned some software. Thatwas helping with this, so I came in and thought okay, I workedat Ibn before and I just when Lotus notes had come through and I had workedat x am and there was no cloud there were servers and then there was amirror of the servers over in another state right, but I saw how hard andimportant it was to have all these naming conventions of all the songs,tagged the METADATA and how people all over, not just in the building but allover the country were collaborating in our cloud right and what that needed tolook like, and so I built a spreadsheet that became the cloud for the WalmartProject and my spreadsheet system ended up getting us a hundred thirty percentRi year over year. For three years. Amazing, though thanks yeah, hestumbled into Walmart fired out this system. It came massively successful and then, where did lately come from because itwas your idea. I mean you had this thing going. You had a you kind of hadthis germination of an idea. Tell me the story of that because it's you workfor Ibn, but I take it you're, not a teckin or one. You know, then I meanhow do you go from that then, to this ai driven machine,...

I mean my big mouth. You know again,like the reason that those angel investorsinvested in me is because I was yammering on about. I was taking totask a pretty famous music industry. crit critic loudly with you know allthe cursing that I do and they were I I think they thought I had some ballsbasically and the same thing when I walked into the Walmart project. Ibasically not even basically, but I don't Polishis not my gift mark, and so I was like this is a freaking mess. You know I waswhat I kind of said, and then I was at a dinner one night and I you know I wasdoing the same thing just having my big mouth and somebody said you know youshould really meet my friend, Steve and so okay who's. This Stephen, I didn'thave time for Steve, but he was harraway a Steve. You know,there's always a Steve Right in there is my Steve. Doesn't work turtle next, soin fact he's in Puerto Rico, right now for ally wearing a t shirt. So he was in this world. He was a serialentrepreneur. He was a former C to chief technical officer and then alsoan angel investor. I don't know any of this world at all and he kept asking tosee my spread sheets because now I had an agency and I was using this systemfor all my clients and I found him very annoying and but he was he was nicethough, and he would like start. He was driving by my house. He drive from NewYork do Vermont and he would just you know say he can I come by for a beerand we would have him for dinner, so he's kind of like making himself aroundand he started to say you know we just need twenty five thousand dollars. Wecan automate your spreadsheets and build some ware frames and I was likeokay. First of all, don't touch my spreadsheets be crazy. Your Bananas, because I like it, ittook me so long to imagine the world I was in you know I was a consulting. Iwas consultant now and, and the timing was so good by the way mark, because I was really I had. I had to fire aclient and I didn't have the balls to because they owed me so much money and I needed to get out of thesituation. So here I have Steve. Given me this nut right and he also was like we. I didn't know whatautomation meant and I didn't know what wire frames were. Oh and the twentyfive thousand dollars like you know, I was a line cook for a bunch of yearsbefore radio like making money. Wasn't you know my gift and I just thought he was crazy,totally crazy, we'd saved both both me and my husband. Both music industrypeople had saved like crazy to buy our first house, which is what we weredoing and Steve Ended Up, taking the twenty five thousand dollars out of hisown pocket and bringing in Jason my other co founder to my house. One nighton you'll relate to this, like I was a consultant, and so I got vacation whenmy clients got vacation, so it was Christmas and I was on vacation and itwas Sunday at eight o'clock at night and they wanted to come by. I had twoglasses of wine in me already and I always hissed the time to negotiate the launch of anew company. I know right and then I saw what they built and I was like. OhSteve Says I was much nicer to him. After that, I guess we talked aboutbeing come in an accidental, nge, repre neur and then become an an excudent AlB to be SAS entrepreneur. It's a a great story. You know, and it's beenamazing, to see how lately has evolved from your perspective, as somebodywho's had a very very background. What are the big? What are some of thebiggest challenges of running a fast growing company? Personally andprofessionally? That's the best question. Really I meanthe so. The the biggest job...

...is. I've got fifty houses on fire atany time and my job is to figure out which ones gets the water right andoften times I don't get to put out the whole fire I just get to like dribble alittle bit right, and so that's the that's the most difficult Dayli Day today task, which I'm sure you can relate to and those those fires get to be more. What's the word t h, the weight of thedecision is harder. You know with the more investors, you have a D and teamand all the all the thing that's weighing down on you. You know, I think, the professionally, like the failure, you know I'm we weretalking about this in the beginning. There's a manic addiction to being anentrepreneur which is the highs, are high and the lows are low right M and Iclearly love it. I mean I love all the lawlessness of being a line cook andbeing in radio and being in this world right. That's the thing I like. Ithought I found the end of my rope two or three times, and it keeps gettingfarther. You know, and I'm always sort of amazed I'll, tell you I'll tell youa story if you don't mind so a couple years ago I had two we'd raised twopoint: seven million dollars all from angels and I was going for my firstventure round right a little bit different of around and I was trying tolearn how to walk this pack and do all the pitching and everything. And that'swhen all that data came out. That said that female founders only get twopercent of all the venture, capital funding and all of the Shenanigans and how thegoal posts move and gas lighting, and one of my investors said this is thisis what's happening to you right now. This is why you, you know it's notworking and I was stunned and and then it all became clear late, that's whatwas happening and it was sucked, and so I I had no choice but to pull the burn ofthe company back from one hundred thousand dollars a month to tenthousand dollars a month. Wow, it's a lot of people who didn't pay,take a pay check right, yeah and I spent the year doublingsales and I landed sap and an Heiser Bush and Bev, and I got us into we gotGary V and then we got into a very well known, respected accelerator in in SanFrancisco, which Jason Calicat. So now I'm flying out to San Francisco once aweek every week to do a live demo day for four months. I do this. This iscrazy. Breakneck Shenanigans right I come out of that mark. I win the finalDemo Day as the one to win, because you brag about your growth right, I'm inthe top through the class, and I have that term sheet. I've been chasing fortwo years. I got one and the world exploded and I Qodi I cry. I cried, I'm simplifying itreally but, like I cried for a while, because the feeling to me was Oh good, I feel twice you know and it it feels bad right now.It feels really bad, but then I grew the company two hundred andfifty six per cent over eleven months. So it's that that's that of that the boomon right. You know! Well, you know it's been an interest in your for a lot ofcompanies. I mean, maybe I'll tell you a story back. Please see I make youfeel better. So I have a friend of mine, he's Goin, a a lifelong friend of mineand he's assassiner neur he's been tweing for twenty years to besuccessful and he's tried all kinds of things, and some of them have beensuccessful in some not so much last year, he's about to sell his companyand he's at the finish line and the final papers and he his wife are notgoing to be super rich, but they'll be rich enough. coved hits and deal fallsapart and he is crushed emotionally physically. You know he's like you he'sa hard working entrepreneur he's built the company up, so he says S. I got togo back to the table, so he goes back...

...to the table and he build sales thisyear and he has really well and he's just sold a company for double with thegood. The private equity person offers him. The last jeer so goat's great.Thank you. That's that's what I need to hear. Thank you. Well, you've had atremendous here, obviously, and I think in some respects the rising tide liftsall digital ships, and some companies have done better than others, and someare going to growth on B s spectacular, but it'll be good and for othercompanies maybe like lately, it will be good. What I'm curious about this is isprobably not a fair question when you look at the landscape, the marketinglandscape. Right now it doesn't look like there's going to be in person,conferences for most of two thousand and twenty one, if not early. TwoThousand and twenty two I mean things are a bit different. You up here inCanada because we're for locked little more a lot of companies going to spenda lot of money on content, marketing and social media. How do you see thatevolving this year, those two killers and what does that mean for lately yeah? So I mean the thing I've beenpushing for a long time is after the fact, marketing right getting buttonseats is really hard, and it's I mean not because of coved. Even it washarder before right, even a any marketing conference that I've been toit's the same conference every year I mean that gets pretty boring in itself and but but if you want to get theeyeballs exponentially, you take apart. All of those workshops and panels findthe ten twenty thirty sixty. Second many movie trailers and use them todrive traffic either back to the long form or back to the next event. Right,and this what's interesting to me, mark is like so what Ovid did for us iscreated a mind shift. It was already there, but people were forced to figure out how to try new things right,that's been part of it and the after the fact marketing has been big. I meanso think about how you digest radio. Now you don't do it live. Probably youhear it on spoting and you digest it at will, whatever you want same with TVright, not live, and so we as a company for the last six years, we stoppedpromoting our own live events except for the twenty four hours beforehand.We do one the day before and won the hour before, because anything else wefound fell on flat ears because people are just too busy, but if I take itapart afterwards and then use that all these little atomized bits right to tto drive traffic, I end up getting six seven times more leads than I wouldget than the button seats right. So this is the effect we're already seeingthem having you know across. As far as the conference LANCEA goes, I think theother thing that's changing. Is this the control right so like a bigcompanies, marketers and CMENT, the a control that they've been wanting to have and maybe having tohave you can see it? You can literally seeit slipping through their fingers. It's not working any more because peoplerespond to people and believe me, I get my friend Brian Kramer is the one whosaid H: Two eights, there's no more bt and B T beats all human, a human andthat's true, although of course, when you're talking to a larger company,they don't care how nice you are yes, but the talking heads at the company.What do they say, our hourly, the sanitized stuff, isn't working anymoreand they're quickly, not even not quickly but they're. More, that's theone, I'm looking for there. It's it's more accepted that that style is notonly antiquated but like actively killing you it'sactively killing you in the brand because of the controls that latelydoes allow the collaboration to let more voices be part of thatconversation in the microphone. That's...

...the other thing we're seeing acceptanceon as well as like to give. How do I say this to? I don't need to be theonly one on the magazine, the cover of the magazine you can be, and Lauren canbe, and Chris can be, and that's what that's, what I'm seeing other companiesdo as well as like give more voices that microphone. If I understand it correctly lately hasalways been a remote company. Is that true yeah, always I had a coon money, so I had a conversation with anentrepreneur last week at the first question he asked me was what are youhearing from your clients about returning to the office because he'sbeen working remotely for a year and my answer was nothing my clients aren'ttalking about it, they're, not thinking about it. I mean they can see the lightat the end of the tunnel, but it's so it's not terribly tangible right now.So I'm wondering if you're an entrepreneur and you're not quite sure,and your employees are happy and productive working from home and butyou've got this office space that may expire in a little bit. What's youradvice to them in terms of how you manage your people effectively when youcan't see them other than on a zoom call yeah? So it's a good question, becauseevery people do have different needs and we've hired people that don't havethat need on purpose right. So people who verymuch are wild horses can run autonomously. I mean this was this is aa huge part of our our culture fit you might say, but also mark, like we'vetrained people, to be able to give you that hug of Er Zoom Right. You knowfrom the beginning, because we know that that's part of the evangelism kindof thing right. I personally am the kind of person thateats lunch standing up at the fridge. If I eat lunch, you know it's a waste of my time. I save mythat's that's how I am so. I hate the water cooler and because I feel like it is a waste oftime, I'm always trying to think about how I can get something done if I'msitting somewhere or you know, focus, and so I think, like firstunderstanding who, on your there are always broadcasters and fans in theworld right and there's sometimes you're, both there's nothing wrong withbeing either one you have to understand who your employees are and where theyfall fall there I think, equipping them with there's. There's things to equippeople with like, for example, if you're going to be doing zoom calls allday long. It's not enough to look for women. Let's just say everybody wantsto look pretty and people are buying more cover up and self tanner. I meanthis is known fact right, but also, how can you look at the cameradifferently? This is what we do like Lauren is actually always lacking me.She's, like you, have bitch face on smile right, because it's about sales- andyou know all that kind of stuff if you're doing a loom, loom videos foryour customers. Are you looking at the camera here? Is it over here? This isthe kind of stuff that that we've learned to translate from before and toforce people by the way, on the other side to have their camera on, like wedon't, this is being from the beginning. We don't take a meeting if you're goingto be in your phone driving right right. That's that's just thedeal and it doesn't matter if there's a demo or not but like if you, if youcan't take the time to look me in the eye balls, then we know you're notgoing to be your customer. So for those companies I think, like there's somecost of involved right mark. You know you have to think about like what thatvalue is, but some people really need the change of scenery and the change ofPasti get something done. They can't they. They can't be distracted by allthe things at home and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm really curious tosee WHO's going to make it and WHO's. Not. You know who's going to be able towhat people are saying they have zoomed fatigue. That's because they're having cocktailswith their family on zoom and friends, stop that, but I'm curious an I guess.You'd have to really start start to...

...listen to people and find out. You knowwhat their what their social needs are to people. We are, I'm kind of I'm notan introvert by any means, but, like I don't like I'm not in retail. For areason I hate, I hate people, don't tell anybody. So I'm glad you know when I shut thisthing off at the end of the day I mean my husband, we watch TV at night on adinner like that, because I already talked all day. You know I don't wantto talk any more. You know it's going to be interesting, because there aresome people who, like me, probably like you who, like working at home, doingwhat you want and there's some people who need that social interaction, and Ithink I think particularly younger people who that social networking isreally important to them and that intercity and you know theopportunities to rise in the ranks. They feel that they got to be close tothe boss. That may be more important to them than older people, but I thinkit's going to be really fascinating year. I think it's going to obviouslybe very exciting, your for lately sorry really to intrep. So so we do have anoff side every year. That's our one like gathering time andit's here at my house and everybody comes and they spend the night on thefloor downstairs with their sleeping bags and we're like between seventeenand sixty two. So we're not all young right and we do a crazy thing together,like we went, skeet, shooting or Zip lining, and we cook a meal and there'sthere's no work talk, but it's it's the most fun time of the year enjoy it well.You can because at some point in time you may have to buy either by a biggerhouse. I know that be crazy. Oh and you just remindme of one more thing I want to say, which is so. I connect with all my teamon social, which might be weird if your co is your friend on face book, but Iam an Instar am and everywhere else, and the reason I do that is because,because I'm not there in that water cooler, I can't see people what they'redealing with now online. I can so. I know when you know it's the Hist, it'sthe anniversary of somebody's father's death. You know- and I know not to bustthat guy's balls this week- we're all going to use different tools indifferent ways to connect with people but yeah. The future is whatever youwant to make it to be, and we'll see what happens in two thousand and twentyone listen. This has been a great conversation at the top of the show. Itold people that this would be a podcast that happens in twenty fiveminutes or less, but you have broken my are. I know I know you now have the distinct honor ofbeing the longest talking person on my podcast in the last year, but I'll. Letyou off this time, job hazard, yeah, yeah, exactly well.Yeah. You've got a hey. This has been great. We had a few bumps along theroad trying to get this interview arranged. There's another Mark Evans,apparently out there who's talking your email. I don't know what's going on onefinal question: where can people learn about lately and yourself you're, a dolt mark they can learnabout, is at b lately dat a I a D and me, and and lately Weren, all theplaces at lately ai and were very friendly. As you know, we're also alittle wacky thanks for listening to their episode of marketing spark. Ifyou enjoyed the conversation, leave a review and subscribe by, I tunes oryour favorite podcast APP for show notes of today's conversation andinformation about Kate. Is it marketing spark co, slash blog if he'd like tosuggest a guest or learn more about how I help me to be companies of aFractional Co. Patiti advisor and coach send an email to mark marketing sparkCo. I'll talk to me.

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