Marketing & Sales Lessons from an ex-Road Warrior: Andrew Deutsch

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

It used to be that marketing and sales meant jumping on airplanes to meet prospects and clients.

Many people didn't think twice about flying hundreds of miles to a meeting and returning the same day.

At one time, Andrew Deutsch was a hard-core road warrior.

He flew as much as 300,000 miles a year. Andrew visited a lot of places but eventually decided it was an unsustainable lifestyle.

Today, Andrew does most of its selling and from home via Zoom or virtual conferences.

On the Marketing Spark podcast, Andrew and I talk about the new age of sales and marketing, and how new in-person business activities could emerge post-COVID.

It's Mark Evans and you're listening tomarketing spark the podcast that delivers insight tools and tips frommarketers and entrepreneurs in the trenches in twenty five minutes or lesswere clearly living in a new and exciting marketing. Landscape, bt andSASS companies are adopting new tools and approaches to do business and moremarkets. Bangle Tex Andrew Joyce spent a lot of time working with BT companieslooking for marketing and sale strategies and growth. Andrew Welcometo marketing spark in thanks, so much mark or having me, and I appreciate it,I'm curious about your views on selling in the post coid world when salespeople can't travel and see prospects face to face, how does sales change andwhat of the approaches or the best practices that sales people need totake and organization need to take to be successful. The one one phrase thatalways sets me off is when I hear people say in this time: People don'twant to be sold and, and it drives me, that's because the reality of whatsales is hasn't changed a bit. The only differences were not physically in theroom. You know at the end of the day, if you and the person who's involved inthat sales conversation isn't enjoying the process, it's kind of like romanceyou're, not doing it right right. The difference is that you have to usedifferent tools so that you can remain present engaged zoom. The the very verytechnology that we're using has allowed us to really make eye contact, eventhough we're not really looking in each other's eyes were looking at virtualeyes to be able to continue to ask the questions to really dive in. Do ourresearch and understand what are the challenges, the problems, the painsthat our customers have, so that we then can propose solutions for them.That's all those problems, that's what being sold is. Is someone solving yourproblems? I think most people like that now, at one point in time you weretraveling more than three hundred thousand miles a year, yeah...

...meeting prospects and customers. Whenyou look at this new reality with zoom and the ability to connect, do youthink that things like video conferences are going to make salesmore efficient, that we don't have to travel as much? We don't have to haveas much face to face time. It's I mean, certainly in some cases you're going tohave to do it you're going to have to see your customer in person, but doesthis mean that we can be a lot more productive and a lot more efficient?Absolute, absolutely I mean when I was when I was traveling videoconferencingexisted. I've been video Coventin for twenty something years since since theearly days of it when it was grainy and sometimes you'd talk to a frozen faceand all that that type of thing, but many many clients were resistant to itnow, through necessity, we've all become somewhat comfortable. So whathappens? You know in terms of travel? If I was doing the same job today, Iwas doing them. The initial meat and greets to go see touch feel the verifythat I'm dealing with the right partner in that country would probably still behappening, but the number of repeat visits to go back and also the abilitywith Conferencias to be able to handle issues more efficiently in multiplecountenance at the same time, instead of this month, I'm focusing on Asia andnext month, I'm in Africa e there's a certain level of efficiency. That waythat allows you, even though, with email you can communicate with allthose places you legitimately could be on all six continents. In the same day,if we can come to say you know one of the things that I find my own business,is it used to be that when a prospect appeared, you would meet with themright away, because you wanted to show that you were serious if you wanted toget an a phone call and meant that you weren't taking them as seriously as youshould these days when an inbound lead comes in, you respond by email and andthe first response is well, you can't do it otherwise, right now, but thefirst response is: You want to jump on a zoom call and when I see post covedis that kind of behavior continuing, because we want to be as efficient withour time as possible. We want to avoid the travel time and everybodyappreciates that there's a lot of time...

...and effort that goes into sales. So doyou think that prospecting in that regard has changed forever, absolutelyand prospecting just with the the expansion of the Internet, and when Iwas traveling initially globally, there was no internet there, weren't evenfacts machines. In most of the places I went, you'd sit in the Labia the hoteland wait for a kid on a motorcycle to come back from the TEX office, so thetechnology has changed. All of that. If you were in global trade, even as lateas the late S, you spent most of your time in books going through looking atlistings for companies like the time its register, and things like that. Now,it's all entourage so as tech continues to grow the whole prospective worldchanges. But you know if I was in the office and say Cleveland Ohio and a guycalled me or sent me an email or a fat or whatever from but Swana he's notexpecting me to have on a plane a right, a guy in I say, Texas or someone inCanada. Maybe there would be a potential for travel within the nextweek or so to get to know them. So you know when you start talking about saleson a global. My territory, as we used to joke about was all of the countriesthat weren't American except Canada and places they talked funny. So I hadPuerto Rico and right. It was like that also. So you know when you're, whenyour territory is the globe minus the US, Canada and you know a couple otherminor places, it's a whole different. It's a whole different aspect of of howyou prospect how you prioritize your time, how you choose where you're goingto go next there there are countries that youcould do business, but the cost of doing business there based on the sizeof the country, is higher than what you could profit if you did an excellentjob there. So all of that falls into play on the whole prospecting area. So you and I met on Linkin and over thepast year. I would argue that Linton has evolved, probably into places thatMicrosoft never imagined when it...

...purchased linked in for twenty sixbillion dollars a few years ago. How have you seen linked in impact yourbusiness, just in terms of your ability to connect that scale haveconversations drive leads down? The funnel maybe relate a little bit ofyour own experiences with linked in yeah there's, there's been some realclasses and a couple of minuses, but the pluses are that folks who areseeking me out that didn't knew who I was but didn't know how to reach me,have found me again and I've been able to prospect and andcreate contexts and in different types of networks. There are companies that Ihad always wanted to be able to penetrate before, and the people inthose companies were never really unlinked in they had a profile, andthat was that, and now people are more attentive to it. So when you send aconnection request to somebody and in that request, share the reason of whyyou want to talk to them, it's speeds up that whole process of at first.Getting that first meeting on the negative. You know you got to be ableto sort through all the people with crypto currency scams and fake fake profiles of supposed princessesoverseas, looking for a husband and all that other scams that I'll have toavoid, although, although I am going to get that money out of that one bank,that has twelve million dollars, I e from an uncle of, but I never heard ofyou and everybody else. I believe yeah, that's that to me as to elate thingabout think in is it. It really does take a lot of time and I'm sure theyhave to be thinking of better tools to manage connections both in band andoutbound. Given the fact that sales and marketing people won't be travelingthis year, I don't expect conferences to come back until early two thousandand twenty two. Do you see the B TB marketing landscape unfolding this yearin terms of the channels that marketers and sales people are going to leverage?You know I was predicting the death of the trade show long before Covin everhit the the trade show used to exist beforewe had all of this technology. When...

...people would plan their entiremarketing year for that moment of launching what's new, so so if thetrade show for your industry say was in November and it was march, you would be.You know, on a limited basis, kind of rolling it out to your customers if youwere visiting and talking about it, but the big launch was November now, withvirtual trade shows and the ability to use your website to use linked in touse Yutu for videos or vine. However, you do it, you now have the ability tobring everybody together. Any time that you want at the convenience all covieddid was just push the sword. An a little bit deeper into the death of thetrade. Show they'll still be needs for it. There still be conferences and andopportunities to do that, but for the most part I can more efficiently bringa product to market using digital digital technology that I ever could ata trade show. So you know it's you got to roll withthe punches and understand that things are changing. Anyhow, well does raisethe question of the trade shows future and whether conferences are stillviable and relevant. Another marketer that I was talking to said that when hetalked the clients and asked them to assess the success of trade shows well,twenty percent of the trade shows that they attended generated. Eighty percentof their new leads, which suggest that eighty percent of the trade shows theyattend to were a waste of time. Do you think a lot of companies aregoing to look at trade shows in a new light and say you could probably go toonly one third of the trade shows that we used to go to, and, and savers has alot of time and a lot of money and not impact our business in a big way. Isthat a plausible reality? I think it is? You know I was. I was involved in aproject. We had created a new, a new type of barrel for aging spirits andwine, and a project that I was working on several years ago and we would go toall of the craft. Brewer shows the craft spirit shows and those types ofthings those shows are were already turned to a different modelpeopledidn't come to. Those shows to look at...

...all the new equipment. They came forconferences, educational panels, learning situations and in betweenthose they come out. Look at the new stuff that was sort of thetransformation of the trade show where it used to be. There would be you know,small, you know, get togethers and talking and opportunities, but for themost part it was to see the exhibitors, so the transformation was happening now,with with platforms that are out there. There's remo there's walk about there'sa bunch of different ones. Now, where you can actually attend virtually toconferences and have exhibitors who set up virtual show rooms so that you cansee the materials the products and get a far bigger view of all of theofferings rather than a company. That was what do we want to tend by tenbooth or a twenty by you. Can you can really get people involved to seewhat's new in that format and that blow you know thirty to sixty thousanddollars to get your team to a Trade Tho. One of the interesting things as anIntende of trade shows as I go to many of the panels, and it would be- and Iwould say to myself you know I could easily be on stage not because you knowI'm a star or anything, but I had the same depth of knowledge as most of thepeople on stage and so that held less value. For me, the exhibits held novalue for me because I already had all information I wanted. It was that inperson conversation building that relationship. So how do you keep thepower of conversation? Will you eliminate the boots and the panels andall that kind of stuff yeah? I'm a big believer that ninety percent of thebusiness that happens at a trade show is either at the buffet or in thebathroom. And you know people are laughing forsure when they hear that. But it's true some of the best contexts I've everI've ever made. It a trade show or bumping into someone that you know Isat down at the table and look up and I see a badge of a company that I'vewanted to talk to for a year and never got in, but with with these new virtualsystems like, for example, don't know,...

F, you're Filia with the platform remo.No, I'm not you walk when you go. I say you walk in it's. You turn on yourmeeting, there's a whole series of tables and there's six seats at eachtable and you get to choose which one you want to virtually sit at and talkwith folks and then, when the program begins, you go up on the stage, so youcan switch tables and you can look at the list and see where people are. Youwant to meet and truly network digitally and exchange information, and you alsocan put in there. You like your linked, an address, so people can find you andI've made and several conferences I've been to since the launch of thisplatform, an since ovid I've made great contact similar to what I would havedone at a show. The only difference is, I didn't, you know, have to give them apaper business card. I didn't have to shake hands, realize that you know I had drippedmayonnaise on my shirt, while I would embarrass myself shifting gears us a little bit andstill focused on technology. One of the things when I was doing research forthis podcast that you have talked about in the past is the over reliance on MarTech. A lot of marketers have fallen in love, been fascinated with tools thatare all around automation and operational efficiencies. Do you thinkthat the pendulum has swung too far to mar tech and away from the fundamentals?It sounds like you're in that camp? I here's here's the deal, you don't builda house until you have a set of plans, the the agencies out there, who don'tdo their client, a good service, start with the tools and hope that somewherealong the way, it'll lead to a strategy that they haven't built and the realityis the way you build a strategy today and the core of marketing hasn'tchanged in twenty thirty years. How do you know your customer know what theirneeds desires pains are that you can solve, and how do you differentiate inthat market, space against all other competition, so that you're, the onethat can fix that problem and they recognize it? And how do you solve it?That's you want to build that strategy.

First, then, you decide. Do theyactually need a website? Do they need a social media campaign? Do they want tospend money on paper Click, I'm doing an experiment right now with a newprogram, which is a a tech that allows you to be present in a meeting beforethis. You saw me goofing around with with what I can do in Zoom, so imagine beingable to, for example, shrink yourself down, pull the power point up behindyou, there's so many things that you can do to be present in the room. I cancall a press conference and catch your attention while we're while we'rehaving a meeting. All of that can do is great, but first I have to have areason for it, so we're doing an experiment on affiliate marketing withthe training. For this type of technology, the the software is free,but we're selling the training. So we want to see if a Hiliare ng reallyworks. All of the course is going to be sold through affiliates and and it's atrick spare. We think it's going to be very successful. We first tried tofigure out who were the people that could benefit from this training. Howwill it make their lives better and then how do we get to them in a waywhere we're not spending a fortune on Seo Paper Click face book adds linkedin as all those set types of things, so we got to the core. We built a strategyand now, with the launch of the program, we think that we can grow faster thanwe ever would have and not spend a penny on all of that mar text stuffthat that the gurus bring to you every day. Well, that's what I foundinteresting the last year is the return to fundamental. So a lot, I'm seen alot more interest in positioning markings strategies, birs Personas, thebuyers journey tactical plans. A lot of marketers haverealized that the fundamentals matter- a technology- can hide a lot of things.Conferences for that matter can hide a lot of marketing inadequacies, butunless you know your customer, unless you know you have a great story, you'renot going to resonate the markets too competitive these days yeah, I tell thestory all the time, but if somebody...

...comes to you and says mark, I know YourBusiness. I could build you the greatest website in the world. I candrive a hundred thousand people to hat. I can build your social media campaign,you're going to be the most famous guy. You'll have thirty tousand connectionson linked in. If you don't respond by either running away or going. Why do Ineed that? There's something wrong with you, our core, the way everything that we doand people get sick of me. Hearing sick of hearing me say it. Our job is tohelp our customer convert every touch in the voracious advocate for theirbrain, because Brad advocates come from a solid strategy based on what thatcustomer needs and when customers get what they want. When somebody solvestheir problems, they shout from the hill tops, they become a horror ofadvocates that go out and promote your business, whether it be to be conswhatever that's what it's all about, and the only way to do that is to focuson the strategy. First, you a is an interesting point about nurturing brandadvocates in evangelist and I think a lot of Btbai s fall down becausemarketers are focused on prospects. They're shiny, their sex either newwhen we get them were rewarded and compensated, but after someone turnsthemselves from a prospect to a customer as markets ignore them they'regone and then we're on to the next prospect- and I think that's afundamental mistake, because if you don't nurture those people, they won'tturn into advocates and you lose a very powerful marketing vehicle. How much isit worth for you to have every customer who ever bought had contact or workwith you telling their friends? What a brilliant company you are there's areason: Apple has people lining up outside the door to buy stuff they'venever touched, never saw it work. They saw a promotional, video and yetthey're willing to fork out that kind of money on day, one because there's somany people who just advocate for their stuff. Like me, you offer a fractionalco services and I'm curious about your take on the rise of fractional. Why iseverybody talking about it? Why is there some interest and what does itsay about the marketing and for that matter of the sales landscape? Well,there's sort of two sides to it in the...

...marketing world number one. If youspend your money to hire a guy that doesn't have a strategic background, afresh out of college guy, who knows lots of tactical tools built website you're not going to get the same impactas bringing someone in who knows how to build a strategy. The challenges theperson knows how to Butler strategy is really expensive, and most companiesdon't need that guy five days a week right, that's really what it boils downto so do you want to spend you know seventy thousand dollars on somebodywho's going to have to go out and find all of these resources and figure itout or spend on a guy one day a week, oneday a month depending on who you are, they could be part of your teaminvolved, a d and benefiting from the growth of Your Company, who thenempowers the other people to do all that other stuff. It ends up beingsignificantly less cost for significantly higher impact and the anyany fractional chief marketing officer whose goal isn't to eventually grow thebusiness, so they can hire a full time, isn't doing their job. It's that that'swhat fractional is to us. I'm just curious about whether the rise offractional has happened, because a lot of companies cut back on theirmarketing last year and really tried to be very efficient about their marketingspend or whether they've recognized that expense of senior marketing talent.Sometimes and deliver ry that they expect him an I can you pinpoint thereasons for the rise or the their own interest in fractional? I'd like to saythe reason that the fractional is increased in popularities, because youknow because I've been talking about it. I'm karnt there's a lot of differentmotives for different there's. No one answer many companies that we've takenon as fractionals we, I would say, ninety percent of them, because they'vebeen burned by agencies that saw them, as is just the source of income right.They just kept piling stuff on. They didn't have what what I would considerto be a producin ARY responsibility. There they're focused on what we cansell. You THATT has the highest margins,...

...not what can give you the biggestimpact, so that's part of it and then the other is that there's a lot ofcompanies out there that really want that growth, but they know they can'tafford a full time talent. Nor do they need one, because that person wouldcome in build the strategy and then they'd have to get rid of them toreplace it with somebody else right. So it's a great beginning of buildingstrategy. It's also a great way to take any company to the next level withwithout having to spend significantly more it's. I joke it'sthe way to get champagne lifestyle out of your budget, love that love thatAndrew. Where can people learn more about you and and fankle? Well, you canyou can check us out on check me out in Linkin, I'm sure you'll put it in thein the in the context. Our website is Fankooma and our podcast is the fangledcast. You can catch us on you tube. I think we sent it out by facts to wereold occasion coast. Let telegram all that kind of stuff a smokesignal, thanks Andre for your insight and thanks everyone for listening toanother episode of marketing spark. If you joined the conversation, leave areview and subscribed by I tunes or your favorite podcast APP for shownotes of Tas Conversation and Information About Andrew. Is it MarcenePark, dot cost lash clog if you'd like to suggest a guest or learn more, howit help bt companies as a fractional, Co consultant and advisor, and an emailto mark at markets park. Doto I'll talk to a t t.

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