Marketing & Sales Lessons from an ex-Road Warrior: Andrew Deutsch

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

It used to be that marketing and sales meant jumping on airplanes to meet prospects and clients.

Many people didn't think twice about flying hundreds of miles to a meeting and returning the same day.

At one time, Andrew Deutsch was a hard-core road warrior.

He flew as much as 300,000 miles a year. Andrew visited a lot of places but eventually decided it was an unsustainable lifestyle.

Today, Andrew does most of its selling and from home via Zoom or virtual conferences.

On the Marketing Spark podcast, Andrew and I talk about the new age of sales and marketing, and how new in-person business activities could emerge post-COVID.

It's Mark Evans and you're listening to marketing spark, the podcast that delivers insight, tools and tips from marketers and entrepreneurs in the trenches in twenty five minutes or less. We're clearly living in a new and exciting marketing landscape. BDB AND SASS companies are adopting new tools and approaches to do business in more markets. BANGLED TEX Andrew Deoytch spends a lot of time working with BEDB companies looking for marketing and sales strategies and growth. Andrew, welcome to marketing spark. Hey, thanks so much, mark for having me and I appreciate it. I'm curious about your views on selling in the post covid world, when sales people can't travel and see prospects facetoface, how does sales change and what are the approaches? Were the best practices that sales people need to take an organization D to take to be successful? The one one phrase that always sets me off, as when I hear people say in this time people don't want to be sold and and I it drives me. That's because the reality of what sales is hasn't changed a bit. The only differences were not physically in the room. You know, at the end of the day, if you and the person who's involved in that sales conversation isn't enjoying the process, it's kind of like romance. You're not doing it right. Right. The the differences that you have to use different tools so that you can remain present engaged. Zoom, the the very the very technology that we're using, has allowed us to really make eye contact, even though we're not really looking in each other's eyes. Were looking at virtualize to be able to continue to ask the questions, to really dive in, do our research and understand what are the challenges, the problems, the pains that our customers have, so that we then can propose solutions for them that solve those problems. That's what being sold is, is someone solving your problems. I think most people like that. Now, at one point time you were traveling more than three hundred thousand miles a year, yeah, meeting prospects and customers. When you look at this new...

...reality with zoom and the ability to connect, do you think that things like video conference and are going to make sales more efficient, that we don't have to travel as much, we don't have to have as much facetofacetime. I'm it's mean. Certainly, in some cases you're going to have to do it, you're going to have to see your customer in person. But does this mean that we can be a lot more productive and a lot more efficient? Absolutely mean. When I was when I was traveling, video conferencing existed. I've been video conferencing for twenty something years, since, since the early days of it, when it was grainy and sometimes you'd talk to a frozen face and all that that type of thing, but many, many clients were resistant to it. Now, through necessity, we've all become somewhat comfortable. So what happens? You know, in terms of travel, if I was doing the same job today I was doing then, the initial meet and greeds to go see, touch feel, the verify that I'm dealing with the right partner in that country would probably still be happening. But the number of repeat visits to go back and and also the ability with with conferencing, to be able to handle issues more efficiently in multiple continents at the same time instead of this month I'm focusing on Asia and next month I'm in Africa. There there's a certain level of efficiency that way, that that allows you, even though with the email you can communicate with all those places, you legitimately could be on all six continents in the same day if we can come to say. You know, one of the things that I find my own business is it used to be that when a prospect appeared, you would meet with them right away because you wanted to show that you were serious. If you want to get a phone call and meant that you weren't taking them as seriously as you should. These days, when an inbound lead comes in, you respond by email it and the first response is well, there, you can't do it otherwise right now. But the first response is do you want to jump on a zoom call? And when I see post Covid, is that kind of behavior continuing? Because we want to be as efficient with our time as possible, we want to avoid the travel time and everybody appreciates that there's a lot of...

...time and effort that goes into sale. So do you think that prospecting in that regard has changed forever? Absolutely, and prospecting just with the the expansion of the Internet and what I was traveling initially globally. There was no internet there weren't even fax machines. In most of the places I went. You'd sit in the lobby of the hotel a wait for a kid on a motorcycle to come back from the telex office. So the technology has changed all of that. If you were in global trade even as late as the late S, you spent most of your time in books going through looking at listings for companies like the time it's register and things like that. Now it's all about at your fingertip. So as tech continues to grow, the whole prospecting world changes. But you know, if if I was in the office in, say, Cleveland Ohio, and a guy called me or sent me at an email or a facts or whatever from Botswana, he's not expecting me to hop on a plane the meat right. Yeah, a guy in, say, Texas or someone in Canada, maybe there would be a potential for travel within the next week or so to get to know them. So you know, when you start talking about sales on a global my territory, as we used to joke about, was all of the countries that weren't American except Canada and places they talk funny. So I had Puerto Rico and rights like that also, so you know when you're when your territory is the globe, the US, Canada, and you know a couple other minor places. It's a whole different it's a whole different aspect of how you prospect, how you prioritize your time, how you choose where you're going to go next. there. There there are countries that you could do business, but the cost of doing business, they're based on the size of the country, is higher than what you could profit if you did an excellent job there. So all of that falls into play in the whole prospecting area. So you and I met on Linkedin and over the past year I would argue that linkedin has evolved probably into places...

...that Microsoft never imagined when it purchased Linkedin for twenty six million dollars a few years ago. How have you seen linkedin impact your business, just in terms of your ability to connect at scale, have conversations, drive leads down the funnel, maybe relate a little bit of your own experiences with Linkedin. There's there's been some real pluses and a couple of minuses, but the pluses are that folks who are seeking me out that didn't knew who I was with didn't know how to reach me. Have found me again and I've been able to prospect and and create contacts and in different types of networks. There there are companies that I had always wanted to be able to penetrate. Before in the people in those companies were never really on Linkedin. They had a profile and that was that. And now people are more attentive to it. So when you send a connection request to somebody and in that request share the reason of why you want to talk to them, it's speeds up that whole process of that first getting that first meeting. On the negative, I you know, you got to be able to sort through all the people with cryptocurrency scams and fake, fake profiles of supposed princesses overseas looking for husband than all that other scams that they'll have to avoid. Although, although, why I am going to get that money out of that one bank that has twelve million dollars in it from an uncle of mine? I've never heard of you and everybody else, I believe. Yeah, that's that not th that's just well's the thing about Linkedin, is it? It really does take a lot of time and I'm sure they have to be thinking of better tools to manage connections, both in band and outbound. Given the fact that sales and marketing people won't be traveling this year, I don't expect conferences to come back until early two thousand and twenty two. Do you see the bebe marketing landscape unfolding this year in terms of the the channels that marketers and salespeople are going to leverage? You know, I was predicting the death of the trade show long before covid ever hit the the the trade show used to exist before we had all of this...

...technology, when people would plan their entire marketing year for that moment of launching. What's new? So if the trade show for your industry, say, was in November and it was march, you would be, you know, on a limited basis, kind of rolling it out to your customers if you were visiting and talking about it, but the big launch was November. Now, with virtual trade shows and the ability to use your website, to use Linkedin, to use youtube for videos or Vimeo or however you do it, you now have the ability to bring everybody together anytime that you want at the convenience. All covid did was just push the sword in a little bit deeper into the depth of the trade show. They'll still be needs for it, they're still be conferences and opportunities to do that, but for the most part I can more efficiently bring a product to market using digital digital technology that I ever could at a trade show. So you know, it's you got to roll with the punches and understand that things are changing anyhow. Well, does raise the question of the trade shows future and whether conferences are still viable and relevant. Another marketer that I was talking to said that when he talked to clients and ask them to assess the success of trade shows, well, twenty percent of the trade shows that they attended generated eighty percent of their new leads, which suggest that eighty percent of the trade shows they attended were a waste of time. Do you think a lot of companies are going to look at trade shows in a new light and say we could probably go to only one third of the trade shows that we used to go to and and save ourselves a lot of time and a lot of money and not impact our business in a big way? Is that a plausible reality? I think it is. You know, I was I was involved in a project we had created a new new type of barrel for aging spirits and wine and a project that I was working on several years ago, and we would go to all of the craft brewer shows, the craft spirit shows and those types of things. Those shows are all we're already turned to a different model. People didn't come to...

...those shows to look at all the new equipment. They came for conferences, educational panels, learning situations and in between those they come out and look at the new stuff. That was sort of the transformation of the trade show. where it used to be there would be, you know, small you know get togethers and talking and opportunities, but for the most part it was to see the exhibitors. So the transformation was happening now with with platforms that are out there. There's remo, there's walk about, there's a bunch of different ones now where you can actually attend virtually to conferences and have exhibitors who set up virtual show rooms so that you can see the materials, the products and get a far bigger view of all of the offerings rather than a company that was what do we want to end by ten booth or a twenty by you can you can really get people involved to to see what's new in that format and that blow, you know, thirty two, Sixtyzero dollars to get your team to a trade show. One of the interesting things as an intendee of trade shows as I'd go to many of the panels and it would be and I would say to myself, you know, I could easily be on stage, not because you know, I'm a star or anything, but I had the same depth of knowledge as most of the people on stage and so that held less value for me. The exhibits held no value for me because I already had all information I wanted. It was that in person conversation building that relationship. So how do you keep the power of conversation while you eliminate the booths and the panels and all that kind of stuff? Yeah, I'm a big believer that ninety percent of the business that happens at a trade show is either at the buffet or in the bathroom. And and you know, people are laughing for sure when they hear that, but it's true. Some of the best contacts I've ever I've ever made it a trade show. We're bumping into someone that you know. I sat down at a table and look up and I see a badge of a company that I've wanted to talk to you for a year and never got in. But with with these new virtual systems...

...like, for example, I don't know if you're failiar with the platform remo. Now I'm not. You Walk, when you go, I say you walk in, it's you turn on your meeting. There's a whole series of tables and there's six seats at each table and you get to choose which one you want to virtually sit at and talk with folks, and then when the program begins, you go up on the stage so you can switch tables and you can look at the list and see where people are you'd want to meet and truly network digitally and exchange information, and you also can put in there like your linkedin address, so people can find you. And I've made and several conferences I've been to since the launch of this platform and since covid I've made great contact similar to what I would have done at a show. The only differences I didn't, you know, have to give him a paper business card and didn't have to shake hands realize that, you know, I had dripped manaise on my shirt, while I was embarrass myself shifting gears. It's a little bit and still focused on technology. One of the things when I was doing research for this podcast that you have talked about in the past is the overreliance on Martuek. A lot of markers have fallen. Lot been fascinated with tools that are all around automation and operational efficiencies. Do you think that the pendulum has swung too far to MARTEC and away from the fundamentals? That sounds like you're in that camp. I here's here's the deal. You don't build a house until you have a set of plans. The the agencies out there who don't do their client a good service start with the tools and hope that somewhere along the way it'll lead to a strategy that they haven't built. And the reality is the way you build a strategy today and the core of marketing hasn't changed in twenty, thirty years. How do you know your customer, know what their needs, desires, pains are that you can solve, and how do you differentiate in that market spacing it's all other competition, so that you're the one that can fix that problem and they recognize it. And how do you solve it? That's you want to build that strategy first.

Then you decide do they actually need a website? Do they need a social media campaign? Do they want to spend money on paper click? I'm doing an experiment right now with a new program which is a a tech that that allows you to be present in a meeting. Before this you saw me goofing around with with what I can do in Zoom. So imagine being able to, for example, shrink yourself down, pull the power point up behind you. There's so many things that you can do to be present in the room. I can call a press conference and catch your attention while we're while we're having the meeting. All of that can do is great, but first I have to have a reason for it. So we're doing an experiment, an affiliate marketing, with the training for this type of technology, that the software is free, but we're selling the training. So we want to see if affiliate marketing really works. All of the course is going to be sold through affiliates and and it's a true experient. We think it's going to be very successful. We first tried to figure out who were the people that could benefit from this training. How will it make their lives better? And then how do we get to them in a way where we're not spending a fortune on Seo paper, click facebook ads, linkedin as all those types of things. So we got to the core, we built a strategy and now, with the launch of the program we think that we can grow faster than we ever would have and not spend a penny on all of that Martech stuff that the gurus bring to you every day. Well, that's what I found interesting the last year is the return to fundamental so a lot I'm seeing a lot more interesting in positioning, marketing strategies, buyers personas the buyers journey tactical plans. A lot of marketers have rent realized that the fundamentals. mattery technology can hide a lot of things. Conferences, for that matter, can hide a lot of marketing inadequacies. But unless you know your customer, unless you know you have a great story, you're not going to resonate the markets to competitive these days. Yeah, I tell this story all that time, but if somebody...

...comes to you and says, Mark I know Your Business, I could build you the greatest website in the world, I can drive a hundred thousand people to it. I can build your social media campaign. You're going to be the most famous guy. You'll have thirtyzero connections on linkedin. If you don't respond by either running away or going why do I need that? There's something wrong with you. Our core the way everything that we do, and people get sick of me hearing it's sick of hearing me say it. Our job is to help our customer convert every touch into voracious advocate for their brain, because brand advocates come from a solid strategy based on what that customer needs. And when customers get what they want, when somebody solves their problems, they shout from the hilltops. They become a horde of advocates that go out and promote your business, whether it's be to be cans, whatever. That's what it's all about, and the only way to do that is to focus on the strategy first. Your reason interesting point about nurturing brand advocates and evangelists, and I think a lot of BEDB companies fall down because marketers are focused on prospects. They're shiny, they're sexy, they're new. When we get them, were rewarded and compensated, but after someone turns the cells from a prospect to a customer. As market as we ignore them, they're gone and then we're on to the next prospect, and I think that's a fundamental mistake, because if you don't nurture those people, they won't turn into advocates and you lose a very powerful marketing vehicle. How much is it worth to you to have every customer who ever bought head contact or work with you telling their friends what a brilliant company you are? There's a reason apple has people lining up outside the door to buy stuff they've never touched, never saw it work, they saw a promotional video, and yet they're willing to fork out that kind of money on day one, because there's so many people who just advocate for their stuff. Like me, you offer a fractional CMOS services and I'm curious about your take on the rise of fractional. Why is everybody talking about it? Why is there so interesting? What does it say about the marketing and, for that matter, of the sales landscape? Well, there's sort of...

...two sides to it the marketing world. Number one, if if you spend your money to hire a guy that doesn't have a strategic background, a fresh out of college guy who knows lots of tactical tools, built websites. You're not going to get the same impact as bringing someone in who knows how to build a strategy. The challenges. The person knows how to build a strategy is really expensive and most companies don't need that guy five days a week. Right. That's really what it boils down to. So do you want to spend, you know, seventyzero dollars on somebody who's going to have to go out and find all of these resources and figure it out, or spend that a guy one day a week, one day a month? Depending on who you are, they could be part of your team, involved and and and benefiting from the growth of Your Company, who then empowers the other people to do all that other stuff. It ends up being significantly less cost for significantly higher impact and the any any fractional chief marketing officer whose goal isn't to eventually grow the business so they can hire a full time isn't doing their job. It's that that's what fractional is to us. I'm just curious about whether the rise of fractional has happened, because a lot of companies cut back on their marketing last year and really try to be very efficient about their marketing spend, or whether they've recognized that expensive senior marketing talent sometimes and deliver r why that they expect? To me is, can you pinpoint the reasons for the rise or their own interest and fractional? I'd like to say the reason that the fractional is increased in popularities, because you know because I've been talking about it. I'm kidding, no, but there's a lot of different motives for different there's no one answer. Many companies that we've taken on as fractionals, we've I would say ninety percent of them because they've been burned by agencies that saw them as it's just a source of income right. They just kept piling stuff on. They didn't have what I would consider to be a foduciary responsibility there. They're focused on what we can sell you that has the highest margins,...

...that what can give you the biggest impact. So that's part of it. And then the other is that there's a lot of companies out there that really want that growth but they know they can't afford a full time talent, nor do they need one, because that person would come in, build the strategy and then they'd have to get rid of them to replace it with somebody else. Right. So it's a great beginning of building strategy. It's all so a great way to take any company to the next level with without having to spend significantly more. It's I joke, it's the way to get champagne lifestyle out of your budget. Love that. Love that, Andrew. Where can people learn more about you and and Fankle Tech? Well, you can. You can check us out on check me out on Linkedin. I'm sure you'll put it in the in the in the contact our website is fangled techcom at. Our podcast is the fangled cast. You can catch us on Youtube. I think we send it out by facts. We're old. Occasional occasion our podcast tellex, exactly, telegram, all that kind of stuff. Yes, smoke signal. Thanks, Andrew for your insight and thanks everyone for listening to another episode of marketing spark. If you joined the conversation, leave a review and subscribe by Itunes or your favorite podcast APP for show. Notes of today's conversation and information about Andrew. Is it marketing spark dot slash blog. If you'd like to suggest a guest or learn more how I help BEDB companies as a fractional CMO consultant and adviser. Send an email to mark at marketing sparkcom. I'll talk to you next time.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (92)