Sketchnotes: Marketing with a Creative Twist

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In a fast-moving marketing landscape, it's a challenge to break through and attract the spotlight.

Kacy Maxwell is taking a different and effective approach with a concept called sketchnotes that combines notetaking, doodling, and drawing.

It's a user-friendly and quick way to communicate ideas at a time when multi-tasking people scan rather than read.

In this episode of Marketing Spark, Kacy and I talked about:

- Why he embraced sketchnotes

- How B2B companies can embrace brand storytelling

- The marketing outlook for 2022

- Gated content

- His annual solitude trips.

Hi, it's Mark Evans and you're listening to marketing his park. Marketers Love Linkedin. It's a great place to showcase our expertise and let the world know what we think, but it can sometimes feel like Linkedin is marketers talking to marketer. So why, you can imagine, it's hard to stand out from the crowd. However, one marketer doing a good job, a rising above the prey, is Casey Maxwell, executive marketing director with Ramsey solutions in Nashville. He uses a really creative approach called sketch notes to talk about marketing, branding and storytelling, and as someone who loves creativity and different approaches to storytelling, I was compelled to get Casey on the podcast. Welcome to marketing spark. Thanks, I appreciate it. First question. What's it like to have a snowstorm and Nashville understand that it's really coming down in a place where you wouldn't expect snow to really happen? Yeah, we don't. I mean we don't get snow here very often and a snowstorm typically means it can mean anywhere from one inch, that's that's a blizzard down here, to five or six inches and we have had seven inches the past couple weeks, which basically shuts down the entire city because we've got basically one truck for the entire state and it takes a lot for that guy to get to all the roads. So we were often shut down for a good know number of days and looks like we're going to be that for a while here. While here in Canada we laugh when places that don't get a lot of snow get snow storms because we look at that and go that Thot US no storm. That's like a light frosting of snow. What are you guys thinking about? But if you're not prepared, I can totally understand how it would throw things into total disarray completely. Well, let's get back to the topic of the day, marketing. I want to talk about or start the conversation by looking at your approach to Linkedin. It's different and, I would say, more personal than most marketers who really are talking about strategy and tactics, and it's interesting if linkedin gets noisier and a lot of the content looks the same. Can you talk about your approach? Did you are you doing it on purpose? Is it just the way that you naturally like to communicate, or is a combination of the two? Well, Linkedin is is actually it's different than any other social network I've ever been on. I'm probably like a lot of people that initially joined Linkedin when I was looking for a job and I kind of stopped using it after I found one and I realized, you know, I'm a terrible networker. One of the reasons is I just I just don't like small talk, and so I would hate going to networking events and it always just felt very fake, very like Hey, I'm getting to know you so that you can help me later and and that is not fun. It's a linkedin always kind of felt like that. I every time I would get a connection request,...

...it would be then followed up by and hey, I want to work with your company, let's set up a meeting, and like, I just don't want to set up endless meetings talking to people trying to pitch me things. So I started, I think it was in two thousand and twenty one, just at the very beginning. I said, you know what, I want to start sharing some of the things that I've learned. I found that Linkedin had started to change and there were people there that wanted to not just look for jobs or post new jobs, but they wanted to talk about things, they wanted to share information. So I got on there, started looking around and saw that there was a lot of people that were just sharing all the very tactical things of marketing and and that's great. I follow a lot of those people and I find that helpful. But one guy came across. He keep saying, before you get on here and start posting a lot, you need to figure out what your why is. Why are you on here? Why are you doing the things that you're doing? And so I sat down, thought about it and journaled about it and I thought, you know, there's a couple things I don't want to do right. I don't want to be a guru, I don't want to post about things that I don't know about just to sound smart, and I don't want to just share other people's things. And so I sat back and said, okay, well, what am I doing that would be valuable to actually share two people? And so I just started sharing the stuff that I was either researching or learning or or stuff that I had actually experienced in my job. One of those things a sketch notes and it will talk about that in a little bit, but it was stuff like frameworks and mental models and how to make decisions, all of these things that I was learning. I found that in order to share on Linkedin and actually teach people that I had to learn it better than I was learning it already, and so it kind of pushed me over that that edge of just kind of in taking things and then it goes away. But I had to learn it a little bit deeper before I could I could end up sharing it, and so I started posting those things and and a lot of people started interacting and it was just it was fun because it was it was networking, but it was a little bit deeper, you know. It was talking about concepts, talking about these sort of strategies that at a little bit higher level than getting into the Nitty Gritty tactical and I've just I've enjoyed it so much that that I've kept it up. I find your personal approach very compelling because when I look at my own networking, pre covid, it consisted primarily of three things. One is a blog that no one ever read, collected a lot of dust to or coffee meetings which took two or three hours to do. Sometimes they work, sometimes they did and it was like a first date. You got there you knew within the first ten minutes this is going to be a good connection. And three going to conferences where I aimlessly wandered around hoping to find people that I knew or accidentally bumped into people, and it felt very in personal and it felt like an inefficient way of networking...

...and trying to do business. So when I landed upon Linkedin, it was like a revelation that you could network at scale and then you could have real conversations with people that you never met before. But the whole room was full of all these interesting people. Your approach really resonated because I think you I think you've got a really good mix of business and personal. I think that's been a lot of a lot of the ways that you've foult have built your profile on Linkedin. I appreciate that and I've tried to kind of kind of walk that line where I know there's a lot like if you go into linkedin and watch the feed, there's so much argument and conversation around should this be on facebook and is this linkedin appropriated, and is this too personal and there are some things on the personal side that I typically don't share. I don't share photos of my family. I typically don't show things that are just like if I'm going sledding, for the most part I don't show that outside. I think I did early on. That was one of the things. So I try to walk this line of personal in terms of how I'm growing as a person and what I'm what I'm learning, but not down to Oh hey, I'm going to see Spiderman with my family chilling out for the weekend, like some people do. That that's completely fine. I'm a dog in that. That's just not the way that I've chosen to go about it. Yeah, I think in that respect you and are aligned. I know there are blearned the lines and there are people who who would contend that personal is part of their professional they're happy to do I don't read it because it doesn't really interest me, although I am interested in people and what with the made up but yeah, it is a different kind of approach. Last week I watched you on Linkedin live. I have not used linkedin live, so for me it was kind of like an education about how some would actually prepare for it, how would they promote the event, how would they would actually do it? And, as you mentioned, it was about this concept called sketch notes and to the uninitiated, it really is a visual and creative way of communicating. Rather than me explain it well, I get you to explain it. What our sketch notes? What was the inspiration to embrace this concept and how do you make them happen? And the whole linkedin live experience. You you need to try it. There's something different about that than recording video and uploading it. There's a we don't need to get into this, but growing up I did a lot of theater and so there was always a difference between rehearsing and doing something without a crowd and then doing it in front of a crowd. There's a little bit of Adrenaline, there's a little bit of energy that changes when you are there and you're seeing people interacting in your kind of feeding on that. So I just recommend that somebody goes and tries it, because there's a lot of prep that has to happen before that, as well as kind of the energy in the moment. But yees, sketch noting is it's one of these things that I kind of stumbled on in the past year, year and a half. I've always loved journaling. I've always loved taking notes...

...when I was younger, and I share this in the Linkedin live when I was younger at I always carried a moleskin journal around. I would see, you know, these people at coffee shops like writing in it and it just felt so artsy and that I guess if you bought one then all of a sudden all of your thoughts would be that much next level. And so I would get them and I would try to like write my next novel or great idea and it was just always terrible, as always just chicken scratch. And then I would take notes at events or from speakers and it just it wasn't helpful. I'd go back to try and look at it and the information in there wasn't wasn't very good and and I was like that's it's just kind of a waste of time. And so I started thinking. I was like there's got to be a better way to take notes, and the first one I came across, honestly, was it was called bullet journaling, and you can research that later, but that's a lot around kind of turning your moleskin journal into a planner, and that wasn't that wasn't really what I was looking for either. And so when I stumbled across sketch noting, I got really excited because I realized it was actually something that I had kind of done when I was in school and learning it and in but this was actually something that you should do as an adult, which you kind of think, Oh, you're drawing doodles, your drawings in your note, but like that's something kids do. But I all of the research shows that drawing while listening to words and taking notes actually helps you learn better. And the reason is is because you're using different parts of your brain and you have to listen in a different way, so you're not just receiving this information, you're actually processing it and as you write it down, you have to use a different part of your brain to convert those words into some sort of some sort of image. So I started, I started doing a lot of research, like once, once I kind of hooked onto sketch note, there's a lot out there. There's a lot of people that are doing it, there's a lot of people that are doing it a lot better than me and for much longer than me. But I just found that when I started sketch noting it helped my focus, it helped my ability to think critically while someone was talking. Because when, like, when you're listening to something and you're just in taking it, usually you do informational listening, and with sketch noting you have to do informational plus critical, and critical is where you take what they're saying. You're say, okay, well, well, let me apply these other things that I know and make some value statements or some judgments and write those into the notes. At the same time I started, I started digging into that and once I figured out that it was something I really enjoyed, that's when I started doing it more and putting it on Linkedin, because I knew that in order, like, if you take sketch notes at it's at its most simple, core is that it takes really important, big concept and makes it simple. So you have to take a lot and distill it down, and that's what that's what...

...sketch notes are. They are something that you can share with people and they can start looking at it and going, Oh, I got the essence of that. Whole talk and I didn't have to watch an hour of it, and so sharing it on Linkedin has forced me to say, Oh, let's do more sketch noting and let's see if I can get better and let's get things out there and get that conversation going. Sketch noting is really a combination of drawing and words and like. Linkedin is full of text and people have actually gotten away from things like carousels and images, and so if you look at a Linkedin newsfeed, you're seeing words afterwards, afterwards to see of words and it. It's really getting increasingly hard to break through. I was a reporter for a long time. I was reported for fifteen years. I took copious notes all the time, handwritten notes, and even to this day when I will go into a meeting, all right, notes because, as you say, when you write something down it just seems to you seem to remember it better, seems to resonate better. Then I love going back to my notes and I highlight them and I'll start them and I'll do a lot of the things. I haven't really got to the point of doing sketch notes because I'm not so sure I'm the best artist around. I do think that, at a time when there's so much information coming at people, text messages, video games, billboards, blog posts, linkedin, post, etc, etc, etc, that doing what you're doing is it's extremely sort of thinking out of the box in a sense, going against the grain, doing different things when it comes to marketing, the communications is how you break through and I think you've landed upon something really interesting. I appreciate that. The the interesting thing is that I was very hesitant to share the the first sketch note on Linkedin, and the reason for that is one there are people that are way better than I am at drawing, like there are people that have been drawing for years. They can make stuff look beautiful and put it out there. And so I had this concept, I'm not, I'm not an artist, I'm not I'm not a creative. I you know, I work in marketing. I shouldn't, I shouldn't share this because people are going to go, oh, that's that's cute. You know, that's not that's not great. And so it took it for me, it was a lot of courage to kind of put that out there and be able to be willing to stand out. And so when I did, and I had such positive feedback. It was it was encouraging that. I'm like, you know what, sometimes we put these labels on ourselves, like I even heard you say that. You're like, I can't really draw. I'm not I'm not really great at drawn. At that point it was like, well, this is not necessarily about me and how artistic I am, but cans I step out and do something that's going to generate some conversation and allow people to connect with me and kind of see who I am. And so I had this I had this conversation today. Someone Watch the Linkedin live. They they reached out to me. So they connected with me and then sent me a message and said, you know, hey, she said, I'm going to I'm going to start this year. is going to be one of my goals to learn, learn sketch noting. She's like I and I actually did my first one. I said...

I would love to see it, and so she posted it like in the in the DM. She's like here is the only place I feel confident sharing this right now. And it and it looked great. I mean it's it's not going to hang in a museum right, but probably none of mine will ever hang in a museum either. But that's not the point. She's doing something new, she's trying something and she's stepping out, and that's what that's how I think that you kind of stand out when it comes to Linkedin and some of these other channels, because if you just look and said somebody else is doing that, I'm going to in, they're super popular or they're getting traction or whatever, and I'm going to do just what they're doing, most likely you're just going to fade back into into the, you know, the crowd. But if you're willing to kind of step out and try something that may or may not work at all, that's the only chance that you're going to have to kind of kind of get out of the background. Two thoughts. They're one is stand out, which I think is probably the wrong way of putting it. It's more about sticking out because you if you want to capture the spotlight, you want people to look at you and say that person is doing something different or creative or out of the box, then you want to stick out from the crowd. Standing out means that whatever you do has got to be fully polished and professional, and that's not who we are. Were most of us have specific skills, but we're willing to do things in other areas and at lead itself to what to authenticity when when it comes to content creation, is that we do make mistakes. We are humans. Were not production houses. We Are People who will stumble or missay words and that's okay and I think that resonates in today's age because we're all content creators in one way, shape or form. We know that's just natural. But if somebody comes across to slick, you know that there's probably somebody in the background working away trying to get this thing as good as possible. So I don't think people should worry about being perfect. They should just focus on doing and enjoin and see if they can provide value. Of that sort of my rant about authenticity and quality. I love that and I completely agree. I look at every sketch note that I've shared and I see all the things that I don't like about it, the things that, Oh man, I could have drawn that better, or I could have been more clear there, or I could have done that, and when other people look at it they just see the stuff that they like. So it's amazing how you can censor yourself so much because you you you're worried about putting something out there, but most people are going to look at it and get value from it and you should take that, take that step. And I liked your differentiation between step up and stand out, because it is. It's one of those things that, like, you don't have to be perfect, you don't have to be polished. I fall into that trap a lot and there is that that first linkedin live I was so if you go on my profile, I actually have a pre first linkedin live because I wanted to make sure that it was actually going to work. And linkedin doesn't give you that ability to like test the platform.

You just have to do one, and so I did a quick, a quick five minute one, saying hey, I'm just testing this before I before I go live, and it that was that was the perfectionist in me saying, like, I don't want this to not look good or sound good or whatever, but yeah, you gotta, you got to just get out there and to take some risks. Well, the funny thing is I actually watched that test one of you and life. So it was really interesting to see it. There was no way to hide it, like Linkedin won't let you test something and hide it and you can't delete it for like seven days. So I was like, well, they're going to people are going to see my test as well as the first one ever. So I think that's okay. I think it endears people to your Audi you did just sketching out recently of Donald Miller's story brand template and for people who aren't familiar with with story brand, it is a great way to approach brand storytelling and I'm a big obviously a big believer in brand storytelling, but it can be a hard sell sometimes. conceptually, companies understand storytelling, but getting them to actually do it can be a challenge. What's your take on what brand storytelling and tales and, as important, how can company successfully embrace and leverage brand storytelling? When I came across Donald Miller story brand, it wasn't necessarily Revolution Harry. I mean we've kind of we've kind of heard this for a while, but the way that he put that framework together. Anytime you can get a framework around something that you can really latch onto, it just makes these concepts so much clear. That's why I, like last year, I said I was getting obsessed with frameworks and mental models and that's like, that's how we as humans put things together and story is a type of framework. Story is the way that that we communicate. We've communicated information in stories for generations. It's the way that if you look, if you listen to any talk, most talks start with a story. It's something that is a point of connection. It's something that people will listen to differently than listening to a set of information. So when I was putting my linkedin live together, I started out with the story of how I came about sketch notes, and that was a chance for people to drop their guard and say, oh no, he's not talking at me, he's sharing with me. And so stories have this different way of engaging in audience and when it comes to marketing, like story brand is it. There are three things that stood out so much to me in that framework, and it was one that the customers the hero to is that the the business or the the product is the guide and that you have to really understand their problems when it comes to those three pieces, figuring out the story and how like figure out. Okay, if we are the guide and this is their problem and our products solves that problem, that changes the way that you...

...talk to them, because first of all you have to understand them and you have to understand their problem. And when you can figure out how to put that into a story in which it's not just here's a here's a discount by but you put it into Oh, we are part of this customers story to solve their problem, it just changes the way that you talk about your problem. Marketing. To me, when it's done well, it doesn't feel like marketing because it feels like hey, I'm I'm solving your problem, and stories is a great way to do that. The the types of ads that you typically watch our ones with stories in them. They're the ones that you don't even realize it but you get drawn in. You kind of watch either super silly, outlandish Gaiko ones which, even if you look at those, those are just all little stories. They're funny stories, but they're all little stories. But if you can figure out a way to communicate what you're trying to solve to your customer via a story, you're going to capture them in a different way then if you're just hitting them with these these marketing messages over and over and over. I recently saw a video commercial and missed it. It might have been Chrysler or one of the car companies, and it was about this widowed father and his daughter. He had this old car that he used to drive in with his wife and he was very easy to sit in the car because he was trying to remember her. And then one day his daughter got in Cahoot with his friends and they restored the car and made the father extremely happy, and that sort of classic overthetop big brand storytelling, but I think it epitomizes what you're talking about, is that you get lost in the store, you stopped thinking about the product and you think about the experience that a product delivers, and I think that's the keys storytelling that and I think that some people forget that, some brands forget that. It really isn't about your product and the story about your product, but he is about the person and how your product makes them feel or what it makes them do, and that's the essence of really good storytelling. The interesting thing, as I was studying how you recall things. The best way that you recall things is when some sort of experience is paired with emotion, when you tell a story and it connects with someone and there is an emotional reaction, there is a higher likelihood that they're going to remember it. Now I haven't thought about that commercial you just mentioned, but when you were talking about it I remembered it, and so I remembered it and I was able to pull that in because it had an emotional connection with me. And so there's a lot of those type of things that it might not work necessarily always right in the moment that a fifty percent off sale might, but when you talk about branding, when you talk about connection and how a customer feels about you, which is going to generate long term revenue, long term Rom customers a long term experience with you, that's when brand storytelling can really get in there and connect with people in a way that that most marketing can't. The reason I watch that video is...

...that somebody posted it on Linkedin and they said, if you can watch this video about tearing up, then I don't know who you are. So I said, well, watch the video and of course at the end I'm tearing up and I'm getting all emotional. Does epitomize what powerful storytelling can do. So I want to ask you a loaded question in terms of well, let me type to step back one. So twenty twenty, two, thousand and twenty one, you know, marketers had to pull back because there weren't live events to go to. Content became the big thing. We all became publishers and we all leverage social media. But as two thousand and twenty two has rolled around, there's a couple things have happened. Maybe we're not back to in person events again. We're still producing a lot of content, but at the same time people like Chris Walker start talking about the dark, dark web and dark social and all the conversations and the activities that are happening and as marketers we have no visibility, we don't know what's going on at all and it becomes increasingly difficult to do attribution because you can quantify some things and some things you can't. Given those dynamics and given what we're experiencing for the rest of this year, what's your take, and you can talk about it from your your day to day perspective, in terms of the marketing that you think is going to resonate or, as important, how marketers have to adjust to what they see in front of them right now. I think there's a couple interesting things around just data in general. I think over the past few years we, and when I say we I mean marketers. Marketers have gotten kind of lazy when it comes to the way that they market, and the reason for that is because they were able to get so much data, they were able to use these marketing platforms to gather all of this data. We're targeting became a lot easier than it's ever been and it became a lot more affordable to go in and do that, because if you were only hitting your target market, you wouldn't have to spend as much. Well, over these past years, and what I think is going to continue in two thousand and twenty two, is that's going to continue to get harder and harder and harder. When you think of the apple updates and various facebook updates that are really taking away our ability to see what people are doing, it goes back to we're going to have to make sure that our messaging is resonating in a better way than ever, and some of that is around. When you think of gated and ungated content, and I've seen you post a couple times about this, I think I probably have a little bit of a contrarian view when it comes to that, because I don't see anything wrong with gating content because I'll tell you what, I have never as a person, so take the marketer out of me. As a person, I have never been upset with giving my email address for a piece of content if if that content fulfills what the marketing said it was going to so many times. And I think why customers hate...

...gated content is because we have been burned so many times with giving away our information and then we get this content and we're looking through it and we're like, what is this? Garbage? This is, this is not even helpful. That did even that's not even what it said it was going to be. And so marketing did such a good job at creating a compelling message, but when people got on the other side and they actually experience the download of the product or whatever it was, they were disappointed, and so they don't trust anybody anymore. And so now it's like, well, we need to give everything for free because people don't trust this. Well, I think as long as you're giving away really, really good things, requiring an email address, requiring some sort of account to use your free product, I think that's I think that's fine, but I think the the other the other thing I will say is that when it comes to that, it also happens with products. Marketers need to be in lockstep with the product side, and I'm not talking just about product marketing, I'm talking about marketing. Managers and directors need to be in lock step with the product owners to make sure that the way that they're talking about their product, that the product actually delivers on what they're saying, because there is no faster way to ruin a brand image than doing amazing marketing, do an amazing brand storytelling and someone gets into that product and that product is crap. It doesn't it doesn't do what you said it was going to do. To try and get those people back is going to be nearly impossible. So making sure that you're setting the right expectations and getting in with that product owner so that they're developing the features in the right way is how marketers are going to be able to connect in the right way with customers and the product sign. Maybe two thousand and twenty two is a year of trust. Maybe it's about marketers rebuilding their trust with prospects and customers, because I think one of the biggest problems with the gated content is that, yes, people are happy to surrender an email address for good content, but the problem is the automated marketing of that happens afterwards, where you get the one, the three, the five, the seventh email sequence campaign that is simply designed to wear away your defense. Is They hope that some point in time you'll say okay, okay, I'll I'll get a demo, I'll try your product as a customer. If you face enough of that barrage, you basically say enough, I'm not going through this again. So I think trust maybe to ask for email address, maybe send one email with a welcome message saying I hope you enjoy this content, let us know your feedback and that's it. If we can move build trust, if we can get people with us to believe that we have their best interest in mind, is markers, then we're going to go a long, long way, a lot further than trying to pound a way at people. I think that's definitely the wrong approach. The trust is so important. Trust is synonymous with brand. If you don't...

...have the trust or if you do something that destroys the trust with a customer, even if they stay with you, it's just going to be one thing and they're going to be gone. So if you break that trust in someone's in the product the minute that product doesn't isn't absolutely perfect, they're going to be gone. They're not going to stick around to try and help make it better, they're not going to give you surveys to make it better or do any of that kind of stuff. They're just going to be completely gone. So Building Trust on the front end and and then delivering on what you're going to what you're saying is one hundred percent powamount in two thousand and twenty two. Let's wrap things up with a non marketing topic, and that is things that we do as people outside of digital marketing, because we're on the grid a long time and for me over the last two years, sort of my what's kept me going is physical fitness. I'm a big believer and working out pretty much every day. It's something I'm actually going to write about on Linkedin, sort of mixing a little bit of the personal with the with the professional. The one thing that that I picked up on from reading your content is your solitude trips and I'm interested in how they provide you with work life balance and why being nondigital is so important to you. So I'm married and I have two kids there in middle school elementary school, and so work and out of work is extremely busy and there is rarely any solitude in that. So I try to get solitude, whether we it's waking up early or staying up a little later, and those are typically in our in our spurts. They're they're rarely longer than that because I can't either I can't get up early enough or I can't stay up late enough because I'm so I'm so tired. So I've found that in those times of solitude, in those times of taking away you know, TV and social media and just really sitting down and thinking through things, those are the Times that I'm able to process what's going on. If if you do research out there and look at how you actually get better at things, it's not just by going and having more experiences, it's actually by having an inexperience and then sitting down and reflecting on that experience and building some takeaways. There's a framework called the learning loop that is just that. It's have an experience, sit down and reflect on it, determine takeaways and then try it again. That's how you actually learn things versus I'm just going to go do a bunch of stuff. Well, solitude times and journaling. That's that's the time when I reflect on what I'm either learning or what I'm seeing, what I'm doing. And a solitude trip is something I heard about, but it was it was a chance to say, Hey, I'm going to go try to take one of these hour long things that I have and an extend it into one day, two days, and see what benefit I...

...could get out of that. So the first time, the first time I went, it's kind of daunting, right, because our brains are naturally bent at distracting ourselves and saying I'm going to try and sit in this sort of like focused self reflection for multiple hours in a day. That's that's it's kind of scary. So I prepared a lot went in in the first one. I did more driving, but I mixed both silence and solitude. So I did driving, had the radio off and just was looking at I did this called tail of the dragon where it's got a hundred nineteen turns. It's through the mountains. It's pretty crazy, but it just it was a chance for me to be by myself and then I got to a hotel, did a lot of journaling the next day and went back. This year I got a AIRBNB and it was only about forty five minutes away and then spent the entire day journaling. I wrote my eulogy, which sounds really, really weird. I'm not. I'm not sick and I'm not thinking I'm going to die anytime soon, but it was a it was I'd seen this exercise online where you sit and you write your eulogy of what you would want people to say about you at your funeral, and then you take a look at your life and say, am I, am I living my life in a way that this would actually happen? And you find out, well, not in this area or this area, this area, and then you can say, okay, well, what changes do I need to make so that this is true? And I just I have had so many benefits come from these times. Just a chance to slow down. CALNEWPORT talks about deep work where it's it takes a while to get below the initial you know, silence all the the craziness of your the front of your mind and get down into the depths and really think about, like what do you want? What do you care about? What energizes you? Where do you want to go, what do you want to do? And that extended time of a solitude trip it has become essential for me as I think through and process that. So it's a it's an annual thing that I do now one to two days and I look forward to it every time. So the question I think a lot of people would ask, because does your wife gets solid two trips, given the fact that having two kids then that leading to busy life is pretty crazy. I've been trying to convince her to go. It's on. It's one of these things that your spouse has to be a hundred percent on board. She has seen the benefit for me and has encouraged me to go. But yeah, it's very reciprocal. I'm like go, you, you go plan this. I know the benefits of it, so I definitely want you to experience that as well. Oh and and I did a sketch note of just my framework around solitude trips and that's on my on my linkedin as well. Gives some some key tips that I've found to have the best solid tip to trip when you go.

Well, this has been awesome. I love the fact that we've covered the professional and the personal and kind of mixed it all together. Where can people learn more about you and what you do? I spend most of my time on Linkedin. I actually don't really have a facebook and I'm not on instagram that much, but Linkedin I think Maxwell K and I don't know what my url is, but just search case Kacy Maxwell on Linkedin and I'd love to connect. I connect with most people, as long as after that connection you don't send me a direct message. Is As hey, I'd love to sell you my thing. Let's just fifteen minute call here. Yeah, I hear. Yeah. Well, thanks for listening to another episode of marketing spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, leave a review, subscribe by Apple Podcast, spotify, where your favorite podcast APP, and share via social media and to learn more about how I have Feb stass companies as a fractional CMO, strategic advisor and coach. So I didn't emails to mark at Mark Evans Dotsa or connect with me on Linkedin. I'll talk to you next time.

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