The Entrepreneurial Challenges of Running a B2B Saas Startup

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

What a difference a year makes for B2B Saas entrepreneurs.

In 2021, business was booming, venture capital was flowing, and the focus was customer acquisition and growth.

Today, the economic landscape is bumpy, venture capital has evaporated, and customer retention is paramount.

In this episode of Marketing Spark, Lately.ai CEO Kate Bradley Chernis talks about her professional challenges and how she's navigating the B2B SaaS waters.

She also talks about Lately's struggles to raise venture capital and Lately's bootstrapped approach to marketing.

If you're a BDB entrepreneur, a lot has probably changed over the past eighteen months. Last year business was booming. The rising tide lifted all ships. Times were good. Today it's a different landscape. The global economy is voltile and many BDD Saas companies are focused on running a type ship rather than driving growth. To provide some perspective on what it's like to be in the eye of the hurricane, I'm happy to be talking with Kate Bradley Cheriss, CEO of lately dot AI. I talked to Kate in March, two thousand and twenty one seems like a long, long time ago, at a time when lately was emerging as a red hot company that had just raised a round of venture capital. Welcome back to marketing spark. I Love Red hot well, those than the alternative, right, it's true. Um, thanks so much, Mark. It's really nice to be I feel like you know. It makes I make so many friends and so the best part is to reconnect with you and you know, just to have that famiale familiarity. So thanks for having me back. No, welcome, glad to do it. Before we start, let's level set by giving people a quick positioning overview of lately. What does it do? Who Does it serve? What are the benefits and how is it unique? And that is a lot many questions in the short period time that you can I'm sure you've done this a lot. You've probably got it down Pat. You know you're gonna have to compare from last year, because it always, it always, you know, morphs right as time goes on. But so lately uses artificial intelligence to write high performing sales and marketing copy on social media. That's the the short, quick one liner, but it doesn't really do US justice, as you know, because it's a bit more complicated than that. But we can get into Um. One of the things we are excited about is working with companies of all sizes, so small, medium and large, and you know that's a big no no and Sas World as you can address everyone all the time, but we do, despite what they've said, and we can and we can do it Um the same way, which has been we we we went. We we wanted to prove this point this year and we did. Was that I can talk to enterprise the same way I can talk to small medium business and reach them and convert them. Uh, the same way. So that's been really a kind of a fun thing to rub in and say, you know, ha ha ha ha, I told you. The other thing that's sort of crucial to what we do is repurposing content. Right. So artificial intelligence, as you know, mark is, is dumb. It's just a robot made a metal somewhere in the sky, in our case, you know. And humans have to train artificial intelligence just like a garden. You have to tend the garden,...

...and for us that means feeding long form content to the brain, so it has multiple reference points that it uses to know what what to grab and turn into social right. So that repurposing factor, turns out, is a huge problem for everyone. Right. What do I do once I have this amazing podcast like you have? How do you market it? How many how many social posts should you post about it? Is it social only? Is there a newsletter happening? Are you posting on online? I know you have a long list of things, but that that problem is difficult for so many because we were even if we work for a large company, we feel as though we're an army of one, or we actually are an army of one, except that the army part isn't working so well. Talk a little bit about how lately positioning and messaging have changed over the past eighteen months. You set off the top that you're looking to reach different types of companies and what is the trick from a positioning standpoint so that you're so what you say, the story that you tell resonates with all of them, because they all have different needs and different challenges and different ways of using the technology. So what's been the biggest challenge from a positioning standpoint and what has been some of the some of the keys to success on the change side? repurposing is a big one. So just that word alone. You know, for us it's very easy to we we do two things. One, we build a custom writing model for you and we learned the words, phrases and ideas that that will resonate most with your audience. That's the number one thing. The number two things they're repurposing. So our our greatest challenge is how do you make that one right, because I don't have a long time to give you both, um, but one without the other really kind of cuts the legs off there, you know. So we've constantly experimented with that. Sometimes when I'm talking to, especially enterprise. I've learned there's egos involved, so the positioning that we use there is slightly more delicate. Um. So it's so that no one feels threatened by artificial intelligence. Number One, right Um, and the user is always the same, small or large. It's always the digital manager, whoever that is. Now, if you're a small company, that might also be you, the owner, for example, right Um, or it the you might have, you know, multiple hats there. For them, the idea of saving money and eliminating an agency or another team member is very appealing, and so I don't have to tiptoe around that. But I've also learned that artificial intelligence is as a scary word for so many people, and...

I think you'll remember from our previous conversations is that we talk a lot about the humans and the AI collaborating together. So we have learned in the last year to really double down on that. Um. Like I said, a I must be trained. It's not here to our AI is not here to replace anybody, for good reason, not just because I'm saying it as a nice thing, but marketing and sales Um only works when you have that spark. You buy from people you like or trust or you know you don't. You're not likely to double down and pull your wallet out for something that's just as falling flat for you, you know. And so the spark always comes from the human interaction. So learning how to convey that why that's important. I mean the opposite of that, by the way, is that then people are like, well, what do you mean? I have to do work? They want their cakes. They want to eat their cake and have it to basics. That's right, yeah, they want both. You know, they're like, okay. So, like one of the analogies I always say is, you know, the electric toothbrush mark. You still have to hold it to your mouth for at least the next little while before some robot appears in your house, probably only by Amazon. Right, yeah, Alexa, brush my teeth. How Weird would that be? You know, just thinking about the Jetson's right, it's coming and Jeff Bezos will be the mastermind, body by one of the one of the words that I did want to ask you about is repurposing. In the marketing world, there are catchphrases that marketers glime onto and it seems like from reading a lot and looking at Linkedin is that repurposing and distribution are like the one to punch for content marketers. It's their obsession. You know, a couple of years ago was long form content or videos or high value content, but now it's about repurposing and distribution. So how do you capture Um what people are talking about, the words that they're using and integrated into your marketing without torquing your position in your messaging? You know, we do go with the flow. We're no dummies, right. I mean with a I even we when we first built lately, we never talked about Ai. We had no idea that was what we were building and in fact, even when we were first aware of it, we were cautious before we even use that phrase. But it became a hot button and I knew that it would drive investors to us and Um help we leverage the SEO off it. It's not that we're trendy, but we're paying attention. I mean your question about how does it how do we not let it kind of interfere or poke a hole in the core of what we do? I mean the core of what we do is we make fans, we don't make...

...sales. That's what we do right, and that comes from my background and radio, and just to remind anybody who, Um, hasn't met me before, I used to be a rock and roll Dj. My last Gig was broadcasting to twenty million listeners a day for Xm satellite radio. So this is in fact my Uber Power, right, and we've what I've learned to do is to emanate that from within, right. So first I make my employees my fans. I love them so much, Lauren, Chris, Katie, Kristen, Jason Gregg, Brian, et Cetera. But they're also they also want us to win and we've learned to take the mindset we have internally and treat our customers their same way, in our targets the same way, and it's how our AI operates also, right. So everything emanates from from radio for me. We've learned, by the way, to fold that into how we talk about the AI. If you want, I can can because I don't think I had this language when we met before. You were talking about Ai last year. Is A lot, a lot about the power of social media and efficiencies. That was seemed to be the theme that we're talking about. We should make a spreadsheet of this you talked about. Yeah, well, okay. So will you indulge me? I'll come to zero in and this. So when when your brain listens to a new song, mark it must instantly access every other song you ever heard before in the single moment, and what it's trying to do is to find familiar touch points so it knows where to index that new song in the Library of the memory of your brain. And again, in this moment, an instant. Because your brain is doing all that accessing, you've got nostalgia and emotion and memory and all these things that are just coming forth to play makes music so powerful, but also the those things all make up, make up for the underbelly of rust. Okay, now, trust is why we buy right. Similarly, when you write me an email or text message or a slack message or a social media message, I read it and I hear your voice in my head because your voice, as everyone's voice, has a frequency, there's a it's a song, there's a note to your voice. All sound has a has a frequency to it, and so there's a similar thing that must happen you, as the author, if you want to really engage me, I have to figure out ways to give me familiar touch points, give me familiar access points and trigger nostalgia, memory, emotion trust. So this is what fuels the bedrock of our AI, because lately's AI. While it studies you and all your analytics, it then defaults to a series of other best practices. First one is me and how I write. I have a sales conversion. Don't you want that? Of course you do. So let's take the back practices of...

...what I do and and pre train the AI so that you can benefit from the same idea. Fans, not sales, and so it's like an act. So Ai is is integrated into the platform. Last year it wasn't there. What has been? What's in the past? You've been like from a business and entrepreneurship perspective? Yeah, is the lows, the lessons learned, because obviously, as you said, you are a radio personality who sort of stumbled into becoming an entrepreneur and I imagine that you're like many entrepreneurs, you're still in the learning stage. What's the last Duven like? I mean, it's been certainly an interesting time to be an entrepreneur and certainly an interesting n to be running an a BDB SAS company. For sure. Um, and that's a nice way to say it, I think you know, like there was ai last year, by the way, but we were learning how to describe it and talk it, talk about it and to connect all the dots. And the story is everything. That's something I learned a long time ago. The story is everything. People, I mean my husband, reminds me about this all the time. Our our wedding, is a good example. Like people, there are events in your life that people will always ask about and you want to be able to describe them in a way that where they're walking away with the story. You know. So, so what? What is that? You know? At our wedding, by the way, he played me down the aisle too. Don't stop believing one of many stories. Class. Sure, I am and and, Um, what was the HBO show? But the mom that it was it just sopranos. Sorry, yeah, the so the SPARANOS was like hot and heavy then too. So we were riffing. We were riffing off what was popular and then surprising and delighting my family, who didn't expect any of this with lately. You know, part of the thing about being an entrepreneur is knowing what stories to tell. And when to tell them, when to evolve them to your point right this this year versus last year, knowing when to equip others to be able to tell the same story, because that's so important as well, and that includes, again, my employees as well as my customers and other evangelists. You know, I'm I'm creating exponential megaphone here right. The other thing in the last year, I mean for us so recently, by the way, like when the market turned down over the spring and summer, a number of my investors were reaching out like Hey, are you okay? Everything okay, and I was like same ship, different day. I mean, are you kidding me? Like I'm in startup life. It's always awful. Everything is awful. Once in a while there's something great. It's a blip and it's just...

...a terrible it's a blip, it's this twinkle, you know, and and I'm the worst at celebrating that, as my team likes to remind me, because I'm half glass empty always, you know. But that was my reaction. was like more terrible things are happening. I mean, you know, in case people don't know, as a female entrepreneur, there's only two percent of all women owned businesses hit the million dollar mark. We have not yet. We're almost there. It drives me crazy. We've been almost there for like two years. But then in fundraising land, only two point seven percent of all venture capital goes to female entrepreneurs. So I've raised three point seven million dollars. None of it comes from vcs. It's all been angel money. I still, I still can't get that damn badge. I can't do it. I don't know why. It's very frustrating to me. It's like a I mean, anyone else would stop trying, but just it's like this one thing that eludes me and it really makes me angry. Um. So, you know, the last year has been exciting but also, as we touched on before, we started talking the layers of you can't, you can't take out the stress of life and covid and politics and global warming and whatever else is going on and the humans. You know my team. We're very open. We all talk about each other's lives and share because we have to right. We have to know that in order for you to have a good day of work, you can't be worrying about the person and your family who just had a heart attack literally, or my mom has covid or so and so's kid is going to college for the first time. Like all this, you know, all the mess. All the mess is part of it. Talk a little bit about lately's marketing approach to marketing. I think obviously one of the company's biggest assets is you, the power of personality and having someone who's comfortable telling stories and talking to people and having a very public persona. How have you managed your role as the company's biggest sales and marketing asset with how the company's marketing has evolved? Because obviously it's easy to depend on you to drive brand awareness and bring prospects in. At the same time, you need traditional marketing or regular marketing or non Kate Marketing to do its job. So how is the mixed evolved over the past eighteen months? Yeah, so I'll I'll explain what we do because it's replicable. It's hard on mourning you all, but this is what we do. So we have a ent sales...

...conversion on our enterprise side and on our SMB self service product side it's anywhere between twenty and because we just launched five months ago. So we're experimenting, but Um, pretty good. Why? So what we do mark is, you know, I came at it thinking, okay, I know, obviously the marketing is valuable and if you build it, they don't come. You have to set it up long before, right, because there's nothing worse than needing an audience when there's no one there to listen to you. And so I had, you know, started building social media and all that kind of stuff. But I traditionally, my my understanding was we needed to create content ourselves, but we never had time. And I'm the best content creator in the company and I don't have time for that at all. I mean I have a thousand other jobs, you know, and I couldn't afford, ever, to really take the time to hire someone who could right exactly like I would want them to, because of course I'm micromanaging about that particular thing. So I had an epiphany of sorts when, in the beginning of a lot of people wanted to interview everybody because everybody had a podcast suddenly, right, it was a huge trend. Yeah, very trendy, very trendy, and I was getting a lot of requests because I'm a female entrepreneur, rock and Roll Dj A. I'm interesting. The Epiphany I had was, wait a second, what if I took this earned media and ran it through lately? So now I don't have to create owned media anymore. But earned media is easy for me that I don't have to think about this interview. I you send me questions. I actually really don't read them because I can answer anything you give me and it's better. It'll be a better show if we do it come spontaneously. I don't have to prepare for this and I don't have to do anything afterwards. I just give it to my team. So we upload it to lately. It breaks apart everything you and I say. It's looking for the words and ideas that it already knows my target audience are most likely to like, comment and share and we and it breaks it up until like forty social posts. My intern, I call her my intern, Alex. She's been working for me for five years. She's a real human being with a full time advertising job and she's great at it somehow keeps working for me. Love her to death and she takes what's come out of the AI. She tends that garden a little bit and make sure it's not off the rails. We publish it on both our brand channels and all of our employee channels, because together we're stronger, right, so making the employees the advocates as well. And then we look to see online who's liking and commenting and sharing. We start conversations with them and it's very easy because everything is visible. If they qualify or they don't qualify. So by the time we move them into a demo they're hot, right, there's no cold, you know, happening here. Right. So that's one thing we do. The other thing in in parallel with that is we're we believe that we're all in it...

...together and we put our money where our mouths are. Um. So we look online for our targets, our customers and each other internally, when people talk about us, when there's occasions like, say, my customer Jen McFarland, let's say she wrote a book, then we would grab her social post about writing a book. We put it in our sharing is carrying channel that we have in slack and the whole team, even my engineers, is tasked with liking and commenting on this content. Okay, so we do it for our customers, we do it for our targets, Um, not a day has passed in three years where someone hasn't spontaneously written about us on social media. So every time we see that we pop that and sharing is caring. And then anything I write generally as well. Um. So there's a lot of Um. And this is manual, by the way. This is the part nobody wants to here, but you got to do it, you know, like and it's also the fun part. I mean today, Chris Bro whose wife is Kate Snow from NBC. He's my teammate, and he posted a twitter post about her writing a blog about bringing their son to college, and so of course we all piled on, you know, because we want to help kate, we want to celebrate this joy in their lives. I know something about Chris that I might not no, which is important to know. This is a big deal for his family today, and that empathy, that sympathy, it goes a long way. I mean people Pooh Pooh social media and think, well, why does someone want to know what sereal I had? But that's not the point. The point is when you build that relationship, strange total strangers will do things for you, they want to help you. People's in nature is inherently good right. They want to be part of a winning team. Everyone wants to be part of the winning team. Aside from you being the content engine that you run through lately to generate all this this great social content, what's else is in the marketing mix? What else are you doing? Are you advertising? Are you creating content? Are you leveraging s CEO, or are you basically you focus on a few small channels that you're doubling down on. So until recently there was nothing else. Like we don't have a budget for paid we don't have the time. The only content we were creating was we were doing, Um, like a live office hours every week where Lauren, my CEO and former head of customer service, would do like a thirty minute kind of rundown of how lately works or maybe interview some other expert, that kind of thing. And even that we tanked it the last few months because it wasn't I mean, in the end,...

...it's content for us, because we would take that too and run it through lately. You know, Um, we're about to relaunch that and revamp it, which is another story. We just sent our first newsletter out in three years and I didn't I didn't write. That kills me to hear that. I'd give them my content. Guy, you know, are supposed to be a good thing. You every one says they're amazing. But okay, so that's happening. That's happening and it's only happening because I found a few extra dollars to have and I found someone who can, my friend Jen Um, who could write exactly how I wanted to write and knows enough about us, so there wasn't any training required there. We did start doing linkedin paid ads about a month ago, just with a very small amount of money to do an experiment because, like you said, I mean so so consistently. What I do is I do three of these interviews a week. Sometimes I'll do a guest blog somewhere, and we always are driving a thousand people to the website. A thousand it's, sometimes it's nine, sometimes it's twelve. It's a thousand. And to your question is like, well, how do you double that? How do you scale that? And we're doing the same thing always, so we know that we've created this replicable model. So I can make other people mis right, Lauren, Chris, Katie, I can put other people on the cover of the magazine. That's one way, which isn't necessarily scalable. So you have to either make more content, which we're trying to do with the mean I haven't raised in three years. So, like with the budget, we have big borrow steel um or paid ads. So our idea is even with the small amount of effort or money, probably we should be able to get that, get two thousand in, you know, very small amount, and that's what we're experimenting with now. It would be fair to say that the social media landscape has changed a lot. The players have changed a lot, or at least you know. Some of them are doing well and some of them aren't. So, rather than ask you to give me a nice, discinct answer to what you think of the social media landscape, I'd like to do a rapid fire around, and the way it works is that I'm gonna give you a word or a couple of words and I want you to riff on them, and you can riff as long or as short as you like, but almost top of the mind for reactions. You're probably very good at this because as a radio personality you're probably using doing things on the cuff and on the fly. But let's try this and see how it goes. You Are you game for this? Yeah, that sounds so fun. I love your doing this linkedin. Now personal stuff is traveling so well on Linkedin. I've been experimenting quite a lot with it, from pictures to videos to sense of humor. I can go way out there. I can use words that I normally would only preserve like ballsy, for...

...example, Um for for other channels, and I can talk about, you know, being on vacation, like I always bring it back to work, but I've been seeing Um my post triple in views when I'm just talking about life. The other thing on Linkedin'm just so interesting. If you talk about God, boom, algorithm bumps that up. Fascinating. And negativity is nothing new. Lincoln always drives negativity. So negative stories, I'm failed or whatever. So I've been drip feeding those in to see what's the algorithm kind of really thinking about which is, you know, curious to me. So Talk Stevie Nicks sticks. Yeah, that so that viral video of the guy on the skateboard and he was skating to Um. Was it dreams? I think it was dreams and just that one thirty second lit and so then who was her teammate in? Um, my brain is like, so not. Who are the guys in the band with her? Help me, help me, mark, Lindsey. Thank you. I think it was Lindsay Buckingham. Yeah, so that's Buckingham did a skateboard thing during during the during the same song, and then she sang over, you know, the piece. So that I loved that. I thought it was amazing because so much, so much of the music on Tiktok are these like annoying songs. I don't know where they come from, Um, and so it was a great break in the you know the thing, I mean for me, what I what I like there is I love watching guys skate to Michael Jackson. You know, I'm into the rolling, the roller skating. I don't know why, Um, but I've I can see now everybody janking the system. It's just about dancing and pointing right like that's that's the thing. So I wonder when that will change. Um, you know who's sweet integrated with them recently? Yeah, I mean we're not doing a good job of it because we don't have the resources, frankly, to do it, Um, and so I just dabble over there. I just poke around so that someone doesn't call me Old Lady Twitter. It's the beast. I love the twitter. I don't understand what the hell. Um, yeah, Elon Musk is doing. No, I don't think anybody does, for that matters that you're not alone. That guy is crazy, but it's our bread and butter. I mean, I don't. It's funny. I don't. I linkedin is where I personally live, but and but twitter is. I'm more lived there because the Seo seems to be so strong for us, and it can. It can withstand a huge amount of quantity, which is where it lately thrives. Um, I hate twitter chats. Sorry, friends who have recently invited me to do one, I'm which I've said Yes to. Um, because they're always so they're seated, everybody's prepared before and including me. Everything you write is already pre written,...

...you know, and so when I do them I try to write things that people don't expect me to write. You know my I joked, but somebody once called me and Susiante as an insult and I looked I looked it up and I thought best compliment ever. FACEBOOK, the evil empire exactly you said it. I mean it's I almost never post there. I look because there's people I know that do and I otherwise would never keep in touch with them. But it does feel like, Um, you know when you walk into an old camp and it smells like mold, like that's what facebook feels like to me. You know, sounds terrible. Um in Meta. What the Hell is Meta? They're ruining a perfectly good good word there. Thanks. What about facebook's evil twin sister, instagram? That's the other place I personally live. I don't post a lot, but I find out a lot about my community there and I really like that. Um kind of gossipy person, you know. I hate to say that about myself, but I am. I'm interested in what's happening around me locally, and that's where I find out there's a new TACO stand. They finally opened down the street, thank God. You know, there was a there was a there was a forest fire up at Mohawk Mountain in the well Minnewaska State Park, which is like blows my mind for around here. So that's where I get my news. Um. I also one thing on instagram is like, what is up with all the posing. There's so many people I know who work, who I know professionally, and then on instagram there are these sexpots. It's a little embarrassing. Social Commerce. Social Commerce, like do you mean like n f t s like that? No, but selling stuff BIA social. You know, your instagram feed is just teeming with offers and buy ship and crappy stuff that you probably wouldn't want to buy antherwise I totally have gotten sucked in it. I've totally bought weird things that I have. FROWNIES are right over there. You know what they are there? It's tape that you paste, you paint or you you put over your wrinkles and go to bed and hope they disappear. It doesn't work. I don't know. I still haven't done it yet. I've had them for like four weeks and one of these impulse buyers. They what about what about social audio? It's interesting. Club House. Apparently it's split itself apart and remember, I think when we talk last year, clubhouse was still popular. Any any thoughts about social audio? For me, turn off, because I've been there right and I did that already and it didn't you know, I had a personal bad experience that skyrocketed me out of Radio Um. But I love the theater of the mind mark. I love that clubhouse exists. I feel like I'm not interested in playing telephone and...

...just hearing how munch of people have a conversation and overhearing that. That sounds inanely boring to me. And what a fucking time waste to be asked with you like, if you haven't been enchanted by that before, I get I mean I get it. I haven't been in for a while and people keep trying. I mean, for me there's no value there. Like, if I can't, I guess you can. You Record? Now I don't know, but previously you couldn't record. And so then if I can't record, it doesn't become content for me to use to promote and like this is how I think. I mean, I don't. There's almost nothing I do that isn't specifically for something lately, much to my husband's great, you know, Chagrin. Well, that was the inherent flow of the clubhouse that you couldn't record anything. It kind of went into the ether. Right. So there was no there's nothing you could extract. What about something close to you? Well, you're hard or lately's hard as social listening. You know, you and I both know Buzzword, because the hard way is the way. I mean you, if you go to instagram and you go to twitter and go to Linkedin, you are social listening. You are paying attention right. You don't need a platform to do it for you. That sounds like the lazy way to me, right. I mean we're always very quick to know who's talking about us and what they're saying because we're just paying attention. I think it sounds like that's becoming more obvious. But every once in a while I meet a customer who, like doesn't you know, wants to know if lately, is doing social listening specifically, and I just think, well, when's the last time you logged into twitter? And they're like, I don't know, months ago, and I'm like well, I mean, you're an idiot. There you go. Final One. Then this is one that that I love because I I don't really understand it. Is His influencer marketing. I get. I get what you're saying, Um, because of course everything I do is influencer marketing. Right. I mean at some level that you do. Naturally. I mean the word of them there's nothing more powerful than word of word of mouth, except for rewards, which the airlines all figured out. You know, I don't know when, but it comes infencer marketing, it's like people try so hard, right and really, I don't know. I think they try hard to be influencers and it should come. It should be organic rather than forced. It should be I mean, you know, because we're we all want to monetize everything. Of course we're all. The problem is that you're pointing out is everyone sciences everything to death. So they want to break down the perfect algorithm for influencer marketing, you know, whereas just sometimes, just you just gotta let it happen. There's unpredictable unknown marketing is unknown. There are unknowns that happen that you have to include that in your in your plan or in your process and leave room for it to happen. The influencer stuff. By the way, the reason I have frownies is totally that reason. Like I saw a friend of mine was using them.

I think that everyone cottons on eventually, and that's why trends are trends and that's why tried in truds or tried in truds just because you put a name on it, like influencer marketing, it doesn't really change what it really is, right, which is trust. We talked about trust. Yeah, exactly, that this was not the most rapid of rapid fire rounds, but that's okay because I'm sorry, but people seem to like it. They seem to like the fact that this is the way that we sort of we talk off the cuff these days, and so it's a great way to cover a lot of ground in a short period of time. You know, again, great insight into lots and lots of different things and it's great to hear that that you're doing well, not that lately, is continue to thrive. Good luck on getting over that one million revenue figure and see if we can see even get the people over in Silicon Valley or other values to give you some money. That would be nice to see. In three thanks from your lips to God, Zeroes Mark. Okay, so one last question. If people can't find you on social media or linked in on your other platform, where can they learn more about you? And lately? We'll try hard people, it's not that hard. Try Harder. Yeah, I try harder. Yeah, UH, DUB DUB DUB DOT lately dot AI is us and I'm kate at lately dot AI. You can always just email me and say I heard you with mark. You sound like totally crazy and you'll be right. Then I'll respond well. Thanks for listening to another episode of marketing spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, leave a review, subscribe via apple podcast or your favorite podcast APP and, of course, share via social media. To learn more about how I how KTB SAS companies as a fractional CMO, srgic advisor and coach, email mark and mark dot c a or connect with me aft in a populator.

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