Turning Up the Volume on Conversational Marketing

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

For many B2B SaaS companies, conversations are the ultimate success metric.

When customers directly engage with you, relationships are established and, as important, the sales journey is jump-started.

On this episode of Marketing Spark, Mark Kilens, Drfit's VP of Content & Community, talks about how conversation marketing gained momentum last year at a time when conferences disappeared.

Drift pioneered conversation marketing with the introduction of an AI-powered chatbot that attempts to engage, understand and recommend solutions.

Mark and I also talk about Drift's approach to content marketing, the importance of content distribution, and some of the metrics used to assess content marketing success.

Hi, it's Mark Evans and you'relistening to marketing spark podcast that features conversations with markers and entrepreneurs in the trenches. As a BB SASS marketer, I'm surrounded by customer metrics, mqlssql,conversion ratios and click through rates. At the end of the day, I'ma big believer in conversations. A lot of business happens because you've connected withcustomers about their needs, interest and goals. When that happens, sales are alot easier and faster. On today's podcast I'm talking with mark killings,VP content and community at drift, the pioneer and leader in conversational marketing.Welcome to marketing spark, Mark. Thank you, mark. Great to bewith you today. Let's start by defining conversational marketing. What is it?What makes it so effective? Yeah, start at the top. I meanconversational marketing was something that drift created back in two thousand and sixteen. It'sbeen around for a long time and has really gained a lot of traction.Conversational marketing allows you to engage instantly in a very hyperpersonalized way with your customersand buyers to ultimately create more pipeline and accelerate revenue. The key to it, though, is it's in service of creating a better buying experience, abetter digital buying each fraens with that notion of like personalized messaging, personalized help, personalized assistance, if you will, to guide you, guide you throughthe buying process. So how does conversational marketing happen? I mean, obviouslytheir chat bots, there are conversations, believe it or not, with realpeople. Maybe you can define the different ways that conversational marketing happens in thewild? It's another good question. I mean we we took a very hardlook at what is the structure of a...

...conversation and we boiled it down tothree things, and these three things really died a lot of what how,a lot of how we build product, a drift how we teach people touse conversational marketing and sales. What we call this is the conversational framework andit's three pieces. Engage, understand, recommend. So how do you engageone of your buyers or customers, like I said, in any very relevant, contextual, personalized way when they come to your website? We can wecan unpack that if you want. How do you then understand a bit moreabout them. In the traditional sense of marketing mark it's like qualification, right, or disqualification, but it's really understanding more about their tent, the motivations, who they are, how are they feeling that day, all of thosekind of signals, and you, at the same time, through a conversation, either with a chap bought and Ai, you know virtual assistant, or anotherhuman being I chat, are helping maybe them understand a bit more aboutyour business or what you can offer them in that moment, just like anatural, natural conversation. You know what it would occur. And then there'sultimately like a recommendation, and there might be multiple recommendations through a conversation,but in a lot of these interactions with conversational marketing they don't last too toolong. So the the recommendation typically is at the end of the conversation.At least you know it's like them. From a marketing perspective, it's like, Oh, a cult action, if you will. It's like what's thenext best action we can help this person who's visiting our website looking at something? What's the next best action? Is it to maybe go to someone onthe sales team. Is it's some more marketing type content? Is it asa support or service type inquiry? How can we recommend and guide them tothe next best thing? So, if you think about it, just engage, understand, recommend the power in that framework. That's how that's the genesisof all things conversational marketing and sales. I love that framework. I lovethe simplicity and the fact that it really had identifies the key pillars when itcomes to the customer journey. And I'd...

...like to circle back a little bitto engage because in my business, my position myself as someone who helps betob sads, companies attract and engage. But the reality is engaging consumers thesedays is extremely hard. I mean there there's a study to suggest that theysee a hundred thousand words or audio or ads or Social Media Day. Sothere's so much information coming at them that for a marketer it's a huge challengetrying to get someone to stop, even for a short period of time.Can you elaborate on the link between conversational marketing and engage and how do theywork together the how do they allow companies to really pull in a customer?So you can start a conversation and get them down the buyers journey. Imean to me like in the way we think about it at drift, marketingthese days is a function of building a relationship and building a strong trust bond, if you will. Like I likes, I think of it almost as likea chain. Right. There's links in the chain and what marketer shouldbe trying to do is add more links to that trust chain. Right,and it's a sensitive chain, right. It can break it almost any timewith really one bad engagement or interaction. So, from an engagement standpoint,what conversational marketing tries to do is it tries to not only empower the marketerand the salesperson but the visitor, to give them the power, to givethem the power of the the buying process that they want to go through.Right, like they most people, and some of this comes from our stateof Conversational Marketing survey that will talk, I'm sure, more about. Someof this comes from Garter or forester. There's many more people these days thatreally don't want to talk to sales per se. No, marketing and salesare some of the least trusted. You know, jobs right out there.So it's even more important to the common image. Is a minute ago,like about the trust chain and how you build that. So from an engagementstandpoint it's like how do you make that...

...experience, typically the digital side ofthe experience, feel as relevant and as helpful to each buyer? So,from a marketers perspective, it's flipping the idea of your website to be verybuy or centric and and understand who's coming to the website. Car sittion marketinghelps you understand who comes to the website, where are they coming from and whereare they in the purchase journey, that the buying journey, or theor the customer experience journey. How are you want to frame it? Sowhere are they in that? And then what page are they on? Soif you take those three, those technically four things, but it's the WHO, the where and the what that's going to help you then start to shapeout how do you best engage with this person? But then a second thinghas to happen as well. What what's what? Or are most successful customers? Do customers like adobe, OCTA, etc. They also then make surethat when one of those visitors comes to the website that we know is eitherin market or is out of market but qualified but might not be showing really, really high levels of intense they're still going to notify the sales owner,the account owner at the company, of that visitor, of that visit andand it's on then the salesperson to being able to know what to do inthat situation. If they're free. Should they try to kind of jump intothat you know, interaction and engagement and reach out in a really human,personalized way? Should they follow up the next day? Should they follow upin five minutes? So it's doing not only the Front End Change Management ofwhat they experience of the website from an engagement standpoint, but it's also makingsure the backend workflows of how you get your sales team now involved in theseconversations. That's that's the key mark. It's both sides of that coin.The other angle that I want to ask you about is the fact that Ithink it's Gartner suggest that a customer has done about is about seventy weight,seventy percent down the path, down the buyers path, before the even toucha company, and they've done their research,...

...they've looked at other websites, they'velooked at analyst research, they've checked out cap tero or Gtwo, sothey their armed with a lot of information. So by the time they hit thewebsite they're looking for something else or looking for some looking for engagement orsomething personal and relevant. I guess that's where conversational marking can really fill thegap, that final thirty percent that you need a customer to get before theymade the purchase. You make a great point, I call I say itlike this, conversational marketing and sales helps the empowered buy or buy. Ina nutshell, that's a great way to explain the experience, for sure,hundred percent. Before we move on, I did want to ask you alittle bit about drift. I mean this is a company that has had tremendousgrowth enjoys a very high profile as they set off the top. They're thepioneers and conversation of marketing. How did it get to where it is today? Like what was that moment where the company realized that Conversational Marketing was thepath to success and provide a little bit like how did the company start?What was the original mandate? Yeah, the company started way back in twothousand and fourteen. Two Thousand and fifteen. That was those are the founding gears, David Cancel and alias Torres. You know, that's that's when theystarted it. It was not originally concede as like all conversational marketing. WhatDavid and alias the brilliant in many things, but what they're so good at isobsessing over learning from the customer. And we actually have a leadership principle, one of our eight at drift, that is that is called put thecustomer at the center of everything you do. So they just take from a productdevelopment standpoint. So first like product market fit, then eventually, likeyou go to market fit. But if you talk about product market fit,they take this lens of like let's learn through quick feedback loops from customers usingthese different ideas were spinning up and turning into something usable from from a softwarestandpoint and see what steps. So they went through a few iterations. Itstarted as almost like an HR thing. At one point there was like ananate, a tool for like your iphone...

APP. There's Louis called Anat.I think I use it for a little bit. Then they start to realizeand messaging like so they're also really great at and what we do at driftis, we look at the trends that it out that are outside of almostanyone's control. It's like what's change in human behavior, which change and howwe buy, like, how we live, etc. And how to then dothose things apply in the context of BE THE BE? So there aresome massive trends happening right the rise of mobile. That's been a trend overthe last fifteen years. The rise of mobile really then finally allowed the riseof messaging to occur. I mean, I was using AOL Insto messaging mark. You know, I'm sure you use the how you're smiling way back inthe day, but like it wasn't really in a every day way you coulduse, you to go to your computer sit down, like it was like, you know, to beat your house because a mobile, because then messagingplatforms and technology tools were built on top of mobile. It's like, waita minute, there's a whole new communication paradigm. So that's almost the genesisof like conversational marketing sales, where it's like everything now is becoming that muchmore conversational through the power of these digital technologies and digital platforms, and nowbusinesses need to adapt to that because that's how humans are communicating. So thatwas really the starting point. I'll pause there, though, drift alongside hindsmarketing did a survey that talked to more than five hundred marketers for their insightson conversational marketing. Talk about the highlights, some of the things that marketers toldyou, some of the things that were were surprising when you talk tothese five hundred marketers. One of the one of the things that we've seen, and we've done the survey now for three years, so we actually have, you know, three years of data. It's really interesting to see how it'strending in these different directions. We're seeing a more and more. We'reseeing more and more companies adopt conversational marketing solutions number one right, and Ireally think this, this pandemic that we've had to live through, unfortunately,was a trigger point, trigger event for more and more businesses to you somethinglike conversational marketing and sales, because they...

...almost had like no choice to.So one of the stats was we asked the question around Ai powered conversational marketing, making it more accessible and more invaluable than ever before. How do youfeel about that? Eighty two percent forty five people are finding, you know, that type of solution and AIPOWER conversational marketing solution to be very valuable totheir sales and marketing strategy. Right. So that's like that's pretty significant.That's gone up a decent amount. And what's also interesting we talked, wetalked about engagement. Like about forty five percent of the people surveyed, andthis was like five hundred people in this last latest survey. It's a prettybig sample size. Do engagement rates increased over the last eighteen months and inthe pandemic? So like so more people engaging through this digital buying sperience.So how do you personalize the digital buying experience? How do you make yourhow do you make your marketing and sales funnel, if you will, morebuy or centric? What we're seeing through this data is more and more peopleare adapted adopting conversational marketing and then conversational selling to do just that. Andwhat's interesting is also is like buyers expectation. So we ask questions to this audienceabout like the actual solution that technledge those things. But then how doyou buyas BDB buyers? So we looked at a kind of both sides ofthis coin. And the expectations around quick and personalized experiences from these be tobbuyers, mostly managers, directors and above. Those experiences and whatnot have grown bytwenty six percent, meaning they expect more of them by twenty six percentyear over year, and an immediate response, so when you're actually reaching out toa vendor, to your pointer on the seventy percent mark, when you'refinally ready to talk to a vendor, is the last interesting stat they'll showright now. The immediate response has grown sixty four percent year over year.So more and more of these be tob buyers and decision makers are expecting immediacyinstant response when it comes to reaching out to a vendor. And if youdon't have that, guess what's going to...

...happen. was likely they're going toprobably go to one of your competitors or they look the other way. Rightattention spans to your point, I don't know if you ask this question,but I am curious about the disappearance of conferences and the impact that it hadon conversational marketing. When you think about it, many BDB companies spent fifty, sixty seventy percent of their marketing budgets going to conferences. Why? Becausethey wanted to have conversations with prospects and customers. It was the way thatit was an easy way for marketers to drive mql's. The sales guys couldnurture leads, could connect with customers and drive loyalty and, as important,up cells. So what do you think the impact or the correlation was betweenthe decline in conferences, and they may come back soon or not, andthe rise in conversational marketing? It's a great question. You know, we'vepivoted all of our events to be virtual. We're going to be back in personfinally next year. But well we've done is we've integrated with some systemslike on twenty four, another upcoming event platform called gold cast, and putthe conversational experience in front of that. So there's a you can make theactual event experience more conversation. But before but before you even get them tothe event, what markers had to do is pivot their channel mix. Toyour point, like an event is kind of a channel, right you that'swhere you can reach people. Now the channels are going to be much orhave been excuse me, much more like digital based. So we see ourcustomers using conversational marketing within their paid search and social strategy, within their organicsearch strategy, within the email strategy. Those are some great ways you canpair up because you know where the visitors coming from. You know they're comingfrom organic search, you know they're coming from an email, you know they'recoming from an exact paid add and then you can serve up this really contextuallyrich conversational experience on your website page based off of again, like we saidin the beginning of this podcast, who is coming to the WHO's coming tothat page? Where are they coming from? Email, paid add, organic,etc. And then what are they...

...engaging with? In this case,your questions around. They're gaging with an event. Are they looking to signup for the event? Are they looking to get more information about it?Are they looking for the recording? You can make it super easy to helpthem find and do exactly what they're looking for with that event. And then, furthermore, but the beauty of all this stuff is your sales tand we'veempowered them, the sellers, to say hey, here's all of the peoplethat you normally would have seen at this event, coming to our website,signing up for the event, attending the events. Here's what they did duringthe event, and giving them again those kind of behavior signals or signals ofintent and being able to steal continue to the buying help the buy or buythrough those, through those data points, versus the in person piece. Imean. So I think. I think it's a combination of both in thefuture, but it's really making sure that you can provide people. You keepgoing back to this real time idea mark the real time insights into what yourbuyers are doing. And I think the question I was asking was that whenin person events disappeared, conversations disappeared, opportunities to have relevant, contextual,real time conversation disappeared. And I guess the answer. I'm looking forward todconversational marketing fill the gap. Companies need those interactions, they need conversations.And did they turned conversational marketing last year? Well, I think they did turna conversational market. That's what the study said. But you don't youdon't as a market. You don't turn to the solution, you follow thebuyer. The buyers shifted their shifted how they engage with companies, instead ofgoing to these events, like I was saying, they shifted to digital channels, digital virtual events and whatnot, and you can use conversational marketing in thosechannels, with those channels, to create better engagement, create better experiences.So the short of the answer is a hundred percent yes. But I thinkthe best companies, and now what most coupies are doing is saying, ohwell, where have my buyers gone, you know, because there's no events, and how can I meet them where they are with conversational marketing? Let'sshift gears a little bit and talk about drifts approach to content marketing. Asthe thep of content and community, I'm...

...sure you got a lot to say. First, I'm interested in how drifts content marketing, or it's approach tocontent marketing, has evolved over the past eighteen months. To me, contentis always been king, but there has been no doubt that content has reallystepped up as things like conferences haven't happened. Can you provide a little bit ofcontext in terms of how drifts approach to content has changed? Yes,it's the timely question because I actually posted something today on Linkedin, today beingthe end of October. Things actually October twenty seven, for those interested inwhen we recorded this, but I posed something on Linkedin. That comes fromwe we love research, original research, a drift. We find it veryinsightful. So we did a another survey to about a hundred, I thinkwas a hundred and fifteen marketing leaders, the vast majority of those people beingdirector and above be to be marketing meaters, so vpcmos, director level, andthe number one most important thing they say is they stay in the nextfive years. That they're like really, you know, focused on is contentmarketing. Fifty three percents of that, so HAP and they've actually's found thatcontent marketing, as relates to like pipeline generation and the impact on it,went from like number seven on the list last year to this year, whenwe did the survey, was number one. So again I think it's this thisevent that happened with this pandemic, and it's made people realize, well, we need to be more helpful than ever on the digital side of things. We need to stand out somehow. We can't reach people in person,we can't go to the events, we can't go to the dinners, wecan't do these field events, we can't do all these things. So howare we going to really really stand out? And honestly, content marketing is adifferentiated for the brand. So we we just double down on it.We were always very heavy in the content marketing space. You know, Ihave a deep background and content. I was a spot for eight and ahalf years, so I know content pretty well. And drifts also started theirbrand as it's a very powerful from a very like powerful content marketing standpoint.What I mean by that is early days...

...what drifted, David cancel and inthis case Dave Gerhardt started what I call a great cornerstone content asset in theform of a podcast. It's named seeking wisdom, and that that was reallyone of the ways. That also helped us not only grow the drift brandsand make it stand out and make it unique, but also helps bring conversationmarketing to the world through that Parrcus. You know, we wrote a bookon the Category Conversation Marketing. This a whole book on it, at bestselling business book on it. We wrote many books. This won't scale.As an example all these different, dozens of different ways of how to domarketing that doesn't technically scale but has really strong Roi. So I think ourcontent game is always been strong. Now it's about, though, really makingsure you're smart with your content and understanding to spend it impact of your content. So understanding. You know, all this time and money enough for youputting into your content. How is it really turning into the right the rightneeds, but really the right pipeline for Your Business? And how are youusing content, more and more than ever before, to drive customer success?So we have a full life cycle content team hair mark and we have threeoverall content teams for maybe but three that focus on the content across the entirecustomer experience, so pre impost. So that's another thing. I think businesseshave started to shift too as well during the pandemic. How do you thinkhow to make sure the content is consistent across all the touch points? Whathas surprised you and drift in terms of how and we're people are consuming content? Linkedin, for example, has emerged as a great place to to getinsight from lots of different kinds of people. But are there other platforms or otherways in which content has been delivered that caught you by surprised or emergedfaster than you expected to me. Live streaming is super interesting. I meana lot of these platforms have added live streaming, right, like Linkedin,live, instagram, I mean everyone now...

...has a live streaming component and alot of that has been born out of the gaming space. Case. Nowthere's like live stream like online shopping. That's taken from the the TV world, right, like the almost like the live infomercial, if you will.The live component of content is super fascinating and a lot of people think willlike is like as a Webinar content. I'm like, heck yeah, itis. That's what that is. Content like out of event, at theend of the day, is two things. It's like great content, hopefully it'sgreat content, and it's a networking experience. Right, if it's,if it's more in person, right. But you know, from a virtualstandpoint, your virtual event over the last at month really has hinged on yourability to create differentiated and highly valuable content for the audience. So that's anotherreason why I think everyone is doubling down on this and realizing if we diddo this right and we really have a unique brand voice, we have aunique point of view in the market, we have some thought leadership. That'sthat to be crazy thought leadership, but we have something that is uniquely different. We can use this as a competitivedvante for our business and we can reallylike use this not only cross marketing but in sales and CS to add additionalvalue to the actual product we sell. And you can charge a premium thenright, and and your premium brained in that case. And that's where contenthas this effect. I think one of my recent podcast at taught to RossSimmons, is a very well known bb content marketer. The thing that hetalks about is not just content production but distribution and repurposing content to maximize ury. What is drifts approach to those, those two content pillars. You haveto actually have a whole framework called, like the content repurposing framework. Literally, I have this completely laid out for my team. Use It all thetime. It's four different ours. It's reuse, refresh, repackage reposition.So we use refresh, repackage, reposition all of your content assets, especiallyyour corner cornerstone content assets, and I there's technically, my opinion, five, maybe six cornerstone content assets that at...

...least we definitely create a drift.We take that into consideration. You know, we do quarterly planning a drift.We have a just notion of integrated campaigns that we run really focused onthe audience, the trigger event, what are the goals of the campaign,and then the the highest level messaging, and then we map out offers bychannel to get that content, to get that in that great information out intothe market. So so Ross is pointing. Your point is extremely important. Right. I'd like yeah, you can plan your content, you can produceyour content, but if you don't think about promoting your content with deep collaborationwith your demangion or, in our case, revenue marketing team, you're missing asignificant part of the content marketing game. So yeah, we have these fourhours and we use it all the time. It's how you atomize wekind of called the solar system strategy. Absolutely. Here's a tough question.How does drift quantify at the success of content marketing? Because obviously there's there'sthe standard Kpis and metrics that marketers and sales teams use is and then there'sthis whole dark social phenomena that a lot of people are talking about. Sowhen you look at the success your content marketing efforts, how do you tellwhether you're being super successful? How do you tell what's doing, what you'redoing well and what's not working out? What are the different elements that youlook at? It's really good question. It's something that's asked a law there'stwo ways at the highest lettle think about it, engagement and pipeline, andthen what you look in the middle, and I can get two details ofall of these things, but I'll just keep it simple. To start withengagement and pipeline, and what's in the middle of those two things is howmany of those engagements. And an engagement could be a download of a book, a website session, a social media engagement. We have like literally,I think, eighty or ninety different types of engagements that we measure across ourcontent community team. How many of those engagements, and some of them youcan't identify her, but how many of those engagement that you can identify fitinto your ideal customer profile? Basically are a quality engagement. So it's it. Then you get into like the nuance...

...of like, well, what typeof model? Using first touch, last touch, multi touch attribution? Wehave a multi touch attribution model. That looks like that looks at a moretops down view of that model. We also have a bottoms up model,but it more ours right now is more multi touch attribution. There's no perfectway to go with that. To your point, like you just gotta pickone and stick with it for a little bit and figure it out. Butthe other thing that I think content market has failed to measure when it comesfrom the content from from a continent standpoint, is how is your sales team andC s team using your content? So we have a lolution called highspot and we use and so we actually see like on a weekly basis wehave about threezero engagements with our content from our sales and CS team members inhigh spot. That's like twelve thousand a month. That's awesome. That meansthey're using this content to help people buy and learn more about drift and likebe successful to drift. And ultimately what you want to see, you know, is your engagements growing quarter over quarter, year over a year, and then, therefore, if you have your revenue demand stuff dialed in enough,that should follow suit in many ways. A final question. David Council obviouslyhas a very high profile and he creates a lot of great content, includingthe podcast. As you mentioned. HOW DOES DRIFT LEVERAGE DAVID? How doeshe manage his time in terms of creating high value content at a time whenobviously he's He has other priorities and he stretched in different directions. You know, what's your strategy, your content strategy, when it comes to David? They, I mean David in anyways, is like the quasi chief marketing officer, if you will, or any CEO, any great CEO, should be likethe chief salesperson, the chief marketing officer, you know, he's likeselling right, the sound the business. So we do as much as wecan to support him in that endeavor. So, just as an example,there's a big web summit happening in Portugal early November, next week it is. He's going to be speaking on that right at that. So my teamhelped him and some someone on our communications team build his presentation. And thenwhat are we going to do with that? We're going to repurpose it, right, can you package it? It's...

...right, it's like. So that'san example. Right. We have someone who does ghostwriting to help him takehis ideas and really scale them out right. So I think that's really important.Many companies do that. If you don't do that for your executives.Now I think you're a hundred percent. You have someone that helps them right. They have amazing ideas. Are Brilliant people in many ways and there's somethingto be said that a content marketers job. It might not be the best term, but you're almost acting as a broker right. You're helping take someone'sideas and wisdom and knowledge and experiences and share them with someone else. That'swhy I see it, not just for David but alias. Alias has thisAmerican Dream podcast and American dream newsletter. I see that with Katie or Cmo, I see with anyone who doesn't amount of to be executive level. Peopleare drift contribute to our content and our customers contribute to our content all thetime. That's what a great content market it does. They actually don't createa lot of the original content. They help in the facilitation of bringing thoseother people along and helping them share what they know and getting into the righthands. One tactical question when it comes to pulling content out of an executivelike David. Is it a matter of sitting down with him for half anhour or an hour and saying, what are you thinking? What are yourbig ideas? What kind of opinions do you have? Where do you thinkthe industry is going? And simply recording his conversations and then repackaging them ina blog post or knee book or some kind of content asset? Is itas simple as that? They tell you what they want to say and theysay it, so you just package it up properly. Is that? Isthat a simple way of doing things? One way of doing things? Itcan be. What we found to be even more successful, and I've seenthis at with drift house spot, is get give them something to react to, right, and then you can ask some questions about that. But like, give them something to react to and then maybe you've to come back withsomething else then and then, like that's the basis for like the contents andthe questions and what they're going to share with you. But that's the tacticalthing, I think. You know, give them something and also, Imean in our case, like we're really...

...leaning hard into the whole whole conversationalspace, conversational marketing, sales comes shall commerce even, and the the leaderof the business. You know, it is going to have to be theperson who really sells the vision right and sells what makes your company uniquely different. So, like how do you then organize that within a campaign across yourmarketing team? So our tactical thing also is like have a campaign. Weuse briefs. How a campaign level brief that then can take all the stuffthat your executives are saying, in our case David in, use it acrossthese different channels. So, like you got again to your point of apromotion. Think about the whole journey in what you're doing with your executive.Don't think just linked in. Yeah, he's got linked in strategy, doesthings on twitter, but, like you know, he's got a he's gota newsletter. Then we do every every Saturday, called the one thing.We've branded that. We use a lot of a seekings and podcast content still. So it's like I think you got to take you're got to be tacticaland how you approach it, but you also have to like create a plan. Final question. Where can people learn more about you? And Drift,I mean driftcom, driftcom Adrift Insider. We like to think of it aslike the number one place marketers and sales people can go to learn. It'sa free community. We have a ton of almost everything's, you know,not gated. You got to sign up for an account to get some ofour more exclusive contents of our more, you know, indepth courses and classes, but it's all free. Drift inside or drift OCM, slash insider.And then, yeah, you can just follow me on Linkedin, twitter.You can text me. Got My phon number, nindred seventy eight two tosix, six nine sixty five. You can't call that number. It's onlyfor texting conversations. After all, right, messaging, but shoot me a text, happy to talk to you. Thanks to everyone for listening to anotherepisode of marketing spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, please leave a review, subscribe by Itunes and spotify or your favorite podcast out and share via socialmedia. To learn more about how I help bbsass companies as a fractional CMOfor Gigick, advisor and coach, send an email to mark at marketing sparkdot code or connect with me on Linkedin.

I'll talk to you next time.

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