Typeform's Big, Bold Marketing and Market Domination Plans

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Typeform is one of the world's best-known and most popular tools for creating online forms and surveys.

Armed with $135 million in Series C financing, the Barcelona-based company is aggressively expanding its marketing activities to drive brand awareness and cement its industry leadership.

In this episode of Marketing Spark, Typeform CMO Karrie Sanderson talks about:

- How Typeform works to ensure that its positioning and messaging stay fresh, relevant, and current

- How to deal with the realities of the Dark Web and Dark Social given a lot of activities can't be quantified.

- How it conducts market research to identify new competitors and challengers.

- How Typeform plans to better leverage LinkedIn.

- Her biggest accomplishments over the past year and plans to make more people and businesses aware of Typeform.

Every market is teeming with competitors. At a high level. They offered the same products or services and the same features, but how do they differentiate themselves? What are the keys to establishing themselves as market leaders and, as important, keep their leadership position? It is undoubtedly a huge marketing challenge, given the competition keeps on coming, the industry landscape changes and new players launch on a regular basis. On this episode of Marketing Spark, I'm sure we'll get some great insight from Carrie Sanderson, chief marketing officer with type form. Welcome to marketing spark. Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here mark. Why don't we start with type form one on one? What does type form do? Who Does it serve and how does it deliver value around customer engagement and lead generation? Type form is been around for just about ten years. SAR tenure anniversary this year. Barcelona based company, but we have customers all over the globe. We really are. You know, this is an often used term, but the gold standard right it's it's ten years ago and type form was launched. They just change the way that you can interact with folks online, whether that's a form or a survey because it's really conversational based instead of that wall of questions, and it's been that that kind of benchmark ever since of what a good interaction can look like. We help our customers of all shapes and sizes. We've got everyone from you know one, you know one, one person founder does everything companies using type form really well, all the way to very large customers who use us across the board where they want to have a great experience for that interaction with their customers. Um, it's really a lot of folks use us for, you know, to grow their business. It's a lot of legions. The first interface when you're making a contact with the customer, how might you provide a great experience, get them, tell them a little bit about yourself and kind of get that zero party data that is is so coveted and more important right now. Type form does that in a way that really it feels human and it saysn't it makes people want to share and be a part and engage with your brand. We also have video ask, which is a more of a video based same idea, though product and some folks use us for for like a chat, although it's not a primary use case. Some folks use a that way for almost half a billion digital interactions every year and then, of course, integrating with all the tech tools that you would expect. So we are. I've been here for about a year. It's been a really fun ride. You know, it's always good to work on a product where that customer instant customer love, it's built in and you know, it's just it's my job to work with the team on and where we go from here, aside from having a fantastic excuse to visit Barcelona on a regular basis. What what drew you to type form like? What was the challenge that you were looking for? And this is a well established brand, it's it's one of the market leaders, if not the market leader. What personal professional challenges were you looking to tackle by working for a company and leading the marketing team at type form? So...

...for me, and it was three different dimensions, right, there's the dimension of of I feel like I need to have a passion for the product that I work on and and type form has that sort of be to be to c element where you get to get the instant reaction from the end user, the person that responds to that form. We feel that every day because we have a very large viral growth. When people fill out a type form for the first time. What was that experience? That was amazing, like when you have that customer love built in, they click and they want to find out more and then we say well, maybe you have a use case for type forms. So that grows our engine. I love that. That built in emotional, instant connection to a brand is really important. So I love that about it. I also love the size of which type form is like this idea of we're scaling into Um. You know, we've been very successful organically, but now is that time to really think about a marketing strategy, a positioning strategy that will really let us all and kind of tell the whole world more about what type from can do. And then for me personally, like it. It's a great um challenge just to be able to think about this global, you know, remote first world that we're in and leading a marketing team that is that distributed across you know. I mean it's nine hours difference from my creative team. How does that work? So it's a leadership challenge for me as well. I checked all those boxes. Great leadership team. So it's it's been a fun year so far and I'm looking forward to any more. Looking back over the past year, amid very uncertain interesting times, one are the biggest accomplishments, list of things that you wanted to do and things that you've done so far. I think Um like as any company that's scaling the way that type form is. You know, we we closed our series funding in a seriously funding in January and that was a big event for us because it gave us a little bit more of the resourcing that we need to be able to push on marketing levers that we may not have typically pushed on some of the higher level we've been mostly capturing demand. You know, I know you've had as Walker is is one of your guests in the past, but like this idea of what's the difference between demand capture and demand creation? So really working on the team and bringing in the right leaders and skill sets to think about what does it mean to create a brand in the ecosystem that we put in front of people who may not even know they have a problem, who may not even realize that type form can can elevate how they show up in the world. But those, I don't know about us. We haven't really been touching that market at all, and so I've been working on sort of that type of funnel marketing beyond the kind of typical demand capture that you might find it accompany our size. So expanding that a bit and then thinking through the whole life cycle, like what is that customer journey? We always keep customer front and center, but thinking through the different mindsets that people may have when they encounter type form, whether it's a respondent who fills one out for the first time or somebody who's searching I need a form, or somebody who's listening to this podcast. How might they come into our funnel? Are we meeting them where they are and what kind of content do we have to kind of explain how we may or may not be a great...

...fit to help them grow their business engage their customers? Off The top, I talked about standing out from the crowd and competitive differentiation and, as you probably know, I'm a huge fan of positioning and messaging and I'm curious about type forms approach to strategic messaging. How does it ensure that it's positioning remains clear and differentiated? So I think a couple of things for me when I joined type form. We are really focused on their responding experience, right, and that's a very much of a core of who we are. And so, as I evaluated when I joined, like where, where are we missing out, possibly on our positioning? Where can we amplify what we benefit? There was really a couple other stakeholders that we weren't didn't have great messaging about speaking to them. The first one being the creator, right, the person who asked to actually build the type form with your demand, Gen person or somebody in HR whatever role you play, you're the one that has to sit down behind the computer, you know, figure out how it integrates with all the other software. Have we really been spending enough time in our positioning thinking about them as a stakeholder? So it's not just respond and experience. If it's hard to build, that's no fun for me. Right. We've made type form easy. It's so easy and I can do it. So we've made type form easy for anyone to get started and quickly build a form. The second thing is the business itself, right, like the business value of type form. I think we we have an opportunity and we have been pushing more around. How can type form actually help you grow your business and contribute to their bottom line and your goals, whether those are revenue goals, loyalty other type goals you may have, and and we have a lot of information from our customers about how we do that. We just have not been strategically messaging that in the market. And so part of it is that three legged positioning tool really thinking about the value we provide to the various stakeholders. So I've been working with my internal team to all set out to say we've got great, you know, proven, respondent level messaging. How are we thinking about what a creator, somebody who has to build this thing, what the value they are going to are going to need to derive from type form? Where their pain points? And then, similarly, as a business person, you know, if CMOS aren't really thinking as much about is it easy to build? They just want to know what it's going to deliver. So that that's where we're pushing out strategically from the messaging perspective. Yeah, one of the things that I think that is challenge interesting and challenging is the idea that you're you're developing position in and messaging from multiple stakeovers in different use cases. There are parts of the market that are going to want a completely different message than other potential customers. So how do you manage that mix and make sure you're talking to the right people in the right way? It's a great question. I'm I'm a big Fan of knowing what you're not going to say and who you're not going after is just as important as trying to go after everyone. And when you have a horizontal product like type form, it's tempting to...

...try to speak to everyone right. So what we do is there's definitely a generalized message, but what we're working on right now, marketers are definitely a key and like everybody wants to talk to marketers. Marketers are a very key audience for us because they're the front lines of how do you get business growth. They typically manage the website, which is a lot of where people will host. Type form. Is that really nice, user friendly interaction layer that then feeds into their crm. So as far as our our primary focus right now, it is marketers, but it doesn't mean that we don't have if someone comes to us from another discipline or a job title, that they still can't find what they need. But what we know where we're proactively marketing and creating that understanding. Demand is definitely with marketers. As we build out that muscle and we learn, we use our own type forms for feedback for people about how other innovative ways that folks are using us. Then we can we can start to expand. Trying to be everything to everyone is is a road to mediocrity, in my mind, at least, at least at the stage where we are. There's definitely an opportunity for us to build moving forward, but but right now we're very much in focus mode. One of the challenges of positioning is that the competitive landscape changes all the time and certainly the market in which type form plays is active and interesting and ultra competitive. I'm curious about how type form conducts competitive research to identify new and interesting challenges and as well as the incumbents, and how does it monitor what competitors are doing from a marketing and sales perspective? Because there are camps of people that say don't pay attention to the competition, focus on your customers, focus on what you're doing and that's the most important thing, and the other camp will say, listen, you've got to monitor of the competition, because if they're doing interesting things, if their marketing or sales is resonating and yours is doing as well, then you've got a problem. So, from a marketing re church perspective, what are some of the tools that you use, what are some of the approaches that you take to make sure that you know what the competition is doing and you're being proactive as opposed to react? I'm definitely one of those people that's not I'm not in either one of those camps. I'm kind of in the middle of you know, I don't. You can't completely ignore competition, because then you're not really putting yourself in the customer's shoes, the customer. There's very few customers out there who are going to evaluate, you know, what their options are, and that's the Lens that I like to approach competitive analysis from, which is how our customers evaluating us? How do they stack up? Um, you know, where do they put us in a consideration set, in a value based offering? So, from a competitive research perspective, there's really a couple of different approaches. The first thing is we you know, and I joined, I wanted to understand, you know, with my my job is to grow this brand and to to build the business. Where are we? You know, I'm new, I don't understand, you know, how many people know about us. So we did a brand health survey, starting in the US, to see, you know, what...

...is our awareness levels? Where is it relative to our key competition? What is the value, you know, proposition? So really getting an understanding of how much our customers you know, would they recommend us? For those who've heard of us, what kind of MPs score do they give? And that gave us a pretty good feeling of, in general, how we were performing in the marketplace. Then, secondarily, we have a really good strategy and research team here that, you know, if we need to do a deep dive on the competitor, they can. And then, Um, you know, ultimately, from a go to market perspective, if we're making changes to offerings or pricing or positioning. And even when we did our first ad campaign, you know I do, I definitely want to know what are other ad campaigns looking out there, looking like out there? What creative are they saying? What messaging are they pushing in so that we can stay true to our positioning but also differentiate, also show up in a way that breaks through that Sea of Sameness, if you will, can often happen in these categories. So it's a it's a mix. But my first thing was I needed to know where we were relative to the competition, because whenever you're in company you live and breathe it every day. So you think everybody must know who we are, but not always. Especially that just gives you a feel for who you still have to educate. And then, you know, I do want to understand, you know, if news is coming out, that kind of thing, how are they positioning? And then when we have big pushes, I want to make sure that we're not showing up with the same language. It's it's definitely pay attention, but it's I definitely also don't do a react mode. That that's very unhealthy, not only for your business but for your team right because you want them focused on building strategic plans and if you're always reacting, it can create a lot of effective, you know, lack of effectness, effectiveness on what the team's trying to do. I think it's an incredibly huge challenge these days in terms of the competitive landscape. You know, Bill Gates once said that your next big competitors working in the garage right now and if you look at the B two B SAS world, I mean it doesn't take much, relatively speaking, in space in Barcelona right exactly. And you asked about tools. We don't have this here yet, but I mean I do like Crayon was an amazing tool that we've used in the past. There are competitive monitoring tools that that I think you know as we um as we grow. We haven't invested in it yet, but we likely will start investing in some of those things. We do social media monitoring, of course, and some share of voice pr type type tools that we use that that you know you need to have that just to understand what's happening in the marketplace and look for signal that you might not otherwise catch. But there's so much green field really in terms of what we're doing at type form that it's it's okay for us to not be, I want to be obsessed with the customer and what they are thinking and how they buy and how they evaluate and by nature you'll pick up some competitive feed from that, but I'm I want to be customers obsessed, not competitive obsessed. We're living in very interesting times right now the the market has seemingly slumped overnight. What was very robust market alce...

...has has gone soft and there's a lot of fear out there. There's also summer. There's there's an obviously a novice slowdown during the summertime. I'm wondering what your take is in terms of type form as a valuable marketing tool for brands amid slower economic growth and how your marketing has has changed to reflect the economic landscape. It's a great question. It's a really challenging time out there right now. Speaking about customer centric you know, every penny matters, especially we have a lot of SMB customers who are evaluating every dollar they spend and trying to understand the value from type forms perspective. Um, we offer an amazing experience right. It's not a it's not a one way form, a wall of questions that doesn't really give people an emotional connection to your brand. When when you when you experience that it, you might you lose customers. And we know that we have a much better response rate, a bunch better quality of data rate, fill rate when people use type form because it feels more personal. You can make it feel like your brand, you can create that loyalty. I think it's even more important now because every customer matters more than ever. So it's tempting in a market like this to pull back on some of these things and say, okay, I'm going to cut this, this here or cut that. They're just to save and and it's a it's a challenging decision. will be different for every business. But now is the time, in these in these challenging times, to think about the experience that you're giving to your customer, to stand out and to differentiate. You know, we know through our own customers telling this this, that we we do that. We do that, whether it's type, form or video. Ask this way of making a customer feel special or feel like you took time to care about their experience can be a differentiator. That can make the difference between keeping a loyal customer winning a new customer. And they matter even more. You know, when the when the water is high and everything's good, you can let some of those customers blow downstream, but right now, waters low, the rocks are show showing. How how how do you? How do you keep them in your boat, so to speak? You ever, Changion is huge and everyone talks. That's a huge theme these days. That the SASTER conference recently, I think someone from and recent horrowitz was talking about that is the key focus for for B two B Saas companies days days. On the flip side of the economic landscape discussion, what's happening with type form these days? You raised around a big round in January, so you've got some runway and you've got some financial clout, which is an awesome thing to have when the competitors maybe pulling back on their marketing. Has Type Forms Marketing shifted or changed at all over the past few months, because the landscape is has changed and this can reflect not only how you're the channels that you're using or the money that you're spending or even the approach that you're taking. What's it look like from the type form perspective right now? Like every good marketer, right now we have you. We have all evaluated you know. Okay, so are we being as effective as we can, as efficient as we can with the company resources? Is having that that most recent round of funding absolutely...

...helps. There's a race car quote that I won't get exactly right, but you know, on a sunny day it's hard to pass cars, but on in the rain that's and if you're well suited you can pass. You can really make a lot of ground, right, and so we're lucky. I kind of visualize that that extra investment, that that level of of, I don't know, confidence or whatever, that we have that behind us and it's my responsibility to make sure we invest it well. So absolutely looked at everything, Um, and then thought about, as I said earlier, where might we be getting our message out? Where could we be getting our message out to those who have not yet heard of type form or don't understand the value that we can provide, especially in this condition? So actually, our investment levels have increased and we are looking especially in those like reaching out to folks who may not have heard of us Um, and that's in that acquisition side, but also on the retention side. So making sure we're really caring for the customers. We have, to your point, adding a little bit more of value based messaging to them, reminding them, you know, with other stories and inspiration about how type form is a valuable tool for them and how we connect with our other tools. Right. We've also were also doing our own like do we need all this software, you know kind of thing, and just like we'd be on somebody else's is somebody else is looking at their marketing text act. They may be saying, well, what do we this type form for? Right. So how do we ensure that we we play well with others? You know, the integrations that we have with your crm or with your web paid Web web provider, making sure those are all really five star experiences, that they're easy to use and talking about that. So our actual tool investment is increasing and in, I would say, in acquiring a new kind of customer who want to normally find us through our organic revival channels, and then retaining and even expanding current customers. is where we're pushing a little bit. You mentioned Chris Walker earlier in the in the conversation. He box a lot these days about dark social and dark web and one of the big challenges for marketing leaders is that not all your marketing activity can be quantified. I call it in some respects leap of faith marketing, because you're doing these things about all these conversations are happening and you can't measure them. So, as a marketing leader, what's your take on dark social and dark web in terms of their impact on the buyer's journey. And how do you communicate that to your leadership team when they come to you and say, Carrie, how's our marketing performing? What are the metrics like? Like what are the KPI s? What do you say? How do you approach this? Well, it's interesting because I've been a marketer for, you know, quite a while and so I call it old school marketing. You know, the first marketing campaigns I ever ran there was no way to digitally immediately measure. You know how that worked. You would have an ad in the Sunday paper, you might have displays up all over the country, you know, back in my coke colad days. So it's a little bit of that. It reminds me that you have to really it forces you to really think through that...

...customer journey and really think about, Um, the experience that providing and have trust in in what you're doing. If you put the customer front and center, you really understand that you have to put it out there. What what's the beauty of it now is you can do that old school marketing, but you still have the when people come to you, then you can pull them into the traditional digital channels which are easier to measure right now, and it's it's a conversation that I'm having, obviously with the CEO and CFO and the leadership team, around around cost of acquisition being an aggregate thing, to think about the long term value of being an aggregate thing, to think about versus measuring each individual channel or email chain or that. We should be looking at that, absolutely, but how do we look at it holistically? And the idea of the rising tide floats all boats right. So we actually have seen this with some of our new PR efforts that we've been putting in place. When we get these even our serious c funding, you know, which was picked up, we saw an increase in traffic, we saw an increase in folks signing up Um and so when you have those little signals as a marketer, you you amplify those internally as much as you can, say, see and then you know, we kind of we kind of do this baseline. What might you expect from this? And then, if it's running at the same time, how much incremental did you get over that? It's it's art and science. It's actually a really fun part of marketing, especially as like. I have a lot of Bait, brand strategy, brand positioning background and I know the value if you do it right, is something you'll never be able to fully measure Um but it's out there. It's not an easy conversation, but it's one that the leadership team at type form trust me to make. I made sure that they have that mindset before I joined. That was important to know the kind of market I am there's going to be things I'm doing that well will not be able to immediately directly measure. So I made sure to ask that question before I joined the company. So I've got the support a little bit built in there. It's really interesting that you equate dark social and dark web to old school marketing because at one point time, a long time ago, I was a newspaper journalist, ink stand newspaper journalist and we depended on, you know, these display ads and classified to generate revenue, but they had no way of knowing, of quantifying exactly what our reach was. We could say our circulation was a hundred thousand or two hundred thousand. Same thing for billboards and Radio and magazine ads, and it is interesting when you think about its mark. Those Sunday coupons. I still remember sitting when I was just my very first job as a brand associate. Six weeks ago this Sunday coupon dropped. What was the retention rate like? What was the value the different test markets that they would fall in? I mean it's it's a little bit of old school. You have to trust. You have to trust it and do your customer research up front. You can't wait till you have the A B test. Can't be your research. I think that's an important point, is that the more you know the customers, the more you know the channels where you're marketing can resonate, the more you can do...

...this type of marketing. That that you're not going to quantify. Taking a deeper dive into type forms marketing, what are some of the key levers that you're pulling these days? You know, is it things like content marketing? Obviously you're you've embraced PR podcasts. What are some of the things that that you're really leaning into from a marketing channel perspective? I would say to me it's it's as much about an integrated approach as it is which channel in specifics. So obviously the key channels we need to make sure that our website, I mean it's our second largest marketing asset, the first one being our product, because it does drive so much vible of growth. Is Our website in good shape and is it really optimized for people that come to the journey? Like those foundational things, the foundations of of our SCO program and our paid program but what's even more important to me is how it's integrated. So if we're starting to do some advertising, how does that how does that messaging? How does that creative flow through the whole funnel? So we are we're leaning in on channels we haven't really used before. As we are thinking about our con tense strategy, are we thinking about it in terms of a twelve month calendar of what are our customers most interested in? What? What kind of feedback are we getting? We're CANNA be most helpful to our customers. You asked me earlier about you know, what are we doing right now for for our customers in this downturn? You know, we're creating a whole content series around specific to SMB, specific to that initial experience that can give them easy to implement. You know, strategies or tips that can help with them right now. Right you have to be your content strategy needs to be an evergreen like build, but you have to be ready and agile. So for me, but it's making sure that our customer understood. We're saying the same thing at different altitudes so that we it's like, Hey, this is type form, I know who you are, I trust you. You're showing up the same everywhere and again. That's often hard when you join a company that's at the stage of type form is because you've got it's it's still at startup mentality of like cool, let's do this thing over here and this thing over there. Getting that all aligned is a focus right now and that makes it easier when we push on a new channel, to to have that be in concert with our existing channels. And it's just it's easier said than done, you know, moving that from paper into practice. But I've had some exceptional team that that that does that for me. I mean, I provide the guidance, but they make it happen. Can you talk a little bit about the kind of marketing that you're doing for your existing customers? We talk about retention, we talk about building brand affinity and loyalty and a lot of companies go from the motions. They publish a monthly newsletter that is mostly just promoting what's going on with the company's platform, or they might do a Webinar once in a while. But what the type form approach to customer marketing, making sure that you're communicating effectively with the people that obviously pay their bills every month? One of my favorite marketing books is a book called Friction, which I absolutely love, and it talks about this idea and it's the book itself. If you get it, get it in cover because just the experience of the book...

...from a design perspective is amazing, let alone the content. And it's really talking about this idea of reciprocity. Right. I mean when you're a customer, sometimes it feels like all you're trying to do is people just want stuff from me all the time, sign up for this, to that, and and we're really working on balancing out what I would call the giving part, like we're just gonna give you this thing and and so, from a content strategy perspective it often shows up is how can we either inspire you, so we have content that doesn't ask them for anything. It's just like inspiration. You know, it can be inspiration on how people use type form. It could be an inspiration about business, like there's that had had an idea and made it through tough times, even if it has nothing to do with type form. So we think about our content and like inspiring content, educational content, provocative content, and we definitely, for our current customers, want to be seen as a business partner to them and if we're constantly just saying use type form, use this feature, it's important they know about that to product newsletter, but the rest of it in service of really understanding what their business challenges are, giving that inspiration and having them look forward to hearing from us, whether it's a lot of it's done via email and life cycle, you know approach. But we also try to bring that into our community, you know, our customer success teams. So so that's a that's a motion. We're getting started, but so far, I mean you know the metrics of those. When you know what is the open rate, where the click open rates are way they're really high. Actually, I was like, Whoa, that's great, let's do more of that, right, and it's just signal that we're providing something of value and we're not asking for anything in the turn. We all felt it ourselves, you know, and and it needs to be truly valuable. So it can't just you know, people the authenticity. People see through really quickly if it feels self serving, and so we filter that through. It's a new mention motion that we're looking at. And then, as far as like pure retention, we do know, like most SAS businesses, just based on APP usage or how much there you like, behaviors within like this customer at risk for churning. Really thinking through, well, why might that be? Are they not seeing the value? You know? So we me off and ask how are you using type form? How can we help? So using that data to a jumping off point but not necessarily assuming everything. So opening up that conversation, figuring out what value they're getting and how to help them get the most value out of type form. I spent a lot of time on Linkedin. These days, a lot of people are spending a lot of time on linkedin days. A lot of companies are focusing more efforts on creating company pages, for example, that are inspiring, motivational, educational, engaging. How's type form using linkedin? Do you see it as a as a major marketing channel. Um, it is absolutely important because, you know, it's a lot of marketers hang out there. So, depending upon if we're talking about, you know, from a paid perspective, we we definitely leverage the the impact that linkedin can have with account based marketing or paid. We also use it for employer brand Um, when we're...

...looking to fill positions, especially if there's leadership positions. As we grow. You know, we're expanding our leadership team. We've seen a lot of good, good results from from that type of thing and you know, it's where people hang out. To me, it's not just a work channel. It's this interesting blur between work and social. I mean I check linked on the weekends, you know, I'm like, Oh, what's happening in the work world? From a from a paid perspective, absolutely, from an organic perspective, Um, you know, it's something that we're still developing and exploring our approach to, but we are thinking about, Um, you know, how do we give an experience and that same little mini bites, you know, snack able insights that that people are interested in, in a mix again, between it's product relevant or it's it's a little like something that people can quickly scroll through and look through and say like Oh good, useful again in service of the customer. And then there's also the last piece, which is, of course, you know, executive presence and communications, which is important from a company strategy, from a company communications strategy, making sure that as we grow that our leadership team, it becomes more visible, that we have people understand who we are as a company, what our leadership stands for. So that's a new motion that we're also putting in place. Like I said, part of the reason why I joined type form is that ability to scale and put some of these things in place. So a lot, a lot of new things happening all the same time. Mark. One final question, and it's actually not even type form related, but I doing some research. I noticed on your linkedin profile that you were the first mate during a family sailing sabbatical and it's interesting that you note yet you've noted it on your on your list of experiences, so I imagine it was an amazing experience. Can you talk a little bit about that? Wasn't actually eighteen months sabbatical? Were you sailing for eighteen months or was that just the time of period? That you took off. So my husband and are both sailors, mostly racers. You know, we have a J twenty four. We race it up here in Seattle and it's it's Super Fun. And Way back right after we were married, in two thousands and friends of ours were on a they had taken time off and we're just sailing around and they ran out of money and their boat was in near the Bahamas and they said you want to take our boat for a little bit? Okay, so we both took time off our jobs. This is before we had kids, and we both took time off and sailed around the Bahamas for three months and we absolutely loved it and we met so many families who were doing that and we recognized that those kids had they were just a different in a different way about them. They were very confident, they were very self sufficient, they were very resourceful, had a sense of joy and play and fun and and just really comfortable in their own skin and we said we should do this someday. So fast forward fifteen years later. In two thousand and fourteen, we our kids were nine and twelve at the time and we took a two year it was almost two years really on a Tartan thirty seven, so an old but beautiful so thirty seven foot boat for people and we went for two years really east coast of the US and the Bahamas as a family and it was incredible. I had sold my share in...

...a consulting company that I had so you know, we had as much runway as we needed. It was it was changed our family and how our dynamics when you live in a tight space like that that long. But it also taught us a lot of things like how to be resourceful. You know, when you're on a remote island somewhere anchored and something breaks, you can't just go on Amazon in order the part. You have to figure it out. You have to be resourceful, you have to reach out to other people for help, with the sense of community and um it really it was a great experience. It was hard to come back, a little bit of adjustment, but you know, it was a great family touchstone that that will never forget. And I only put first mate because you know my husband there's can only be one captain on a boat, although he will say that I was the admiral, but I didn't want to put that on my linkedin. That's a great story and it sounds like an amazing adventure. Where can people learn more about you? And, of course, type form, so you can learn more about me on Linkedin. Happy to get a follow or reach out D M if anybody wants to connect. If there's anything that we talked about here today that you'd like to ask more about, happy to do that. And type form the best play too. You know, it's type form DOT com. You know our follow us on our social channels, so really appreciate that. Thank you, mark this has been a fantastic conversation. The time flu buy and it's nice to talk to another strategic marketer. Thanks for all the great insight. You know, type form is obviously a market leader, very well known brand, and it's been great to talk to someone who's heading up a marketing powerhouse and to see how you can take it to the next level and some of the things and how you can bring your experience, including sailing into the into the marketing mix. But I want to thank thank everyone for listening to another episode of marketing spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, leave review, subscribe by Apple podcasts or your favorite podcast APP and, of course, share via social media. To learn more about how I have BTB SAS companies as a fractional CMO strategic advisor and coach, send an email to market Mark Evans dot c a or connect with me on Linkedin. Nine.

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