What's a Better Content Marketing Approach: Quality or Quantity Content?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

As more B2B companies embrace content marketing, here's the question: what's more important: quality or quantity content.

In other words: is less more or is more more?

Dan Sanchez firmly falls into the quantity content camp. He believes that marketing success is driven by brands willing to create lots of content as way to perfect production.

Dan also talked about the importance of brand positioning as a pillar for marketing success, and how podcasts are one of the best ways to connect with prospects.

My name is Mark Evans and I'd like to welcome you to market spark, the podcast that delivers small doses of insight, tools and tips from marketers and entrepreneurs in the trenches. By small doses, it's conversations that are fifteen minutes or less. On today's show I'm talking with Dan Sanchez, the director of audience growth for sweet fish media, a podcast agency for bdb brands. He's also the cohost of the BDB growth podcast. Welcome to market he sparked, and thanks for having me on mark. I love on your linkedin profile that one of the things that you love, aside from marketing, is your be Matte. My Wife's from Argentina and Matte is something that is in our house on a regular basis. So where did that come from? Why The Passion for Matte? I was hiking with a friend in Colorado and just whining about how I'm addicted to coffee, but I still loved it, but I still hated how it made me feel every day because I was drinking a cup, maybe two cups a day, and he's like, Bro, you got to check out this thing called your but mate. My missionary friend from Argentina introduced it to me and it's it's all I drink now and I'm like he was so excited about it and so passionate about it. I think he pumped me up. So as soon as I had it I was like yes, this is the future. That was ten years ago and now I drink it every day. Do you drink coffee still? Oh, yeah, but I drink that's kind of on occasion. Like if you go out for coffee to meet with somebody, then I'll get a latte or something and on occasion I'll just drink a cup of coffee of my wife, or if I run out of mate a, then I'll definitely drink some coffee. But mate's definitely the way to go in the tech landscape. Now we can get some marketing, the good stuff. Content is the bell of the ball for many BB companies. Conferences and meetings are out of a question, so content has become the way that they're looking to connect with prospects. Personally, I think there's too much content being created and most of it is me yogre. But you have argued vociferously on linkedin that brands need to create lots of content so they can get better and better. In a recent post, you said you have to post more often, fail, learn and improve consistency to get to where you need...

...to go. The more swings you take, the faster you grow. I'm really interested in your tape because, I said, on the other side of the fence I'm more of a quality person when it comes to content. Not to say you're quality as well, but why do you think that quantity and writing often is so important? You know, it's something that just came from personal experience. When I first started my career, I wanted to be an artist and then I wanted to be a graphic designer. I thought it'd be a good idea to write a blog about graphic design. I posted a few times and guess what I did? I stopped posting and the first couple of posts is hard as I tried, they just weren't that good, and I spent all my time trying to tweak this the the design of the site and all optimizing it, subscribers, blah, blah. I got really good at syped optimization and I actually ended up taking on a career in digital marketing because of that. So, thanks to procrastination, I ended up into marketing. But at the end of the day I ended up trying to just over and over again people talk about content marketing, so I'm like, okay, I would try to do a blog post a week for a certain brand I was working for, and when I finally worked for a university to had a student team, I was like, okay, you your job, student working fifteen hours a week, is the right one blog post a week. So we did that. We did that for a couple of years and it got some traction. But I didn't really start getting traction on that blog until I figured out how to scale from one blog post and then we did to blog post a week and then we started doing ten to twenty blog post a week consistently and that's when traffic really started rolling in and it was it was incredible. James has seen the same thing with BEDB growth. He's not doing one episode a week, he's doing multiple episodes a day, at least once a day, if not two or three times a day, and that volume of content has led BEDB growth to be at a place where it's at now, where it's getting a hundred, fifty thousand plus downloads a month, and it wouldn't have happened. We both know that volume was a big, big factor in that. We all we both made mistakes along the way, me and blogging and him and podcasting, but we both learned that the lessons we learned honestly...

...took dozens of dozens of tries. It was a hundred and fifty episodes and when James figured out he was interviewing the wrong person, crazy and had to figure out how to pivot and then started going on a different track and he got better and better. But he got better because he was doing twenty to thirty episodes a week just himself when he first started. Well, some people would argue that that what you're it's brute force as opposed to making a strategic approach to content marketing. How do you respond to people who suggest that there's there are a lot of people who try to hack the system, who are like, Oh, let's just flood, let's just flood Google with tons of content. In fact, nowadays you can just, I'm pretty sure I could if I really wanted to. I could string together a couple word press plugins and some like SASS products that can automatically scrape blog feeds. That I give it rewrite it by like robots rewriting it and then republish it automatically on my word press site so that it's unique content. But it's just regurgitating everything that it reads. And you know that that then. Now I could do thousands a day, but you know it's going to be no good. There's going to be even if it the sentences are coherent and makes sense, all the content is going to be commodity contents. There's no original thoughts to it, there's no unique thinking to it, there's no stories, there's no message. So that's not the kind of volume we advocate for. We know there has to be you at least a person, a human trying to make the best they can make. But you know what, we all have to start somewhere. You know, the best picture in the world didn't throw fastballs at first. He had to perfect his art and throw a lot of pitches in order to get to the point where they're at now pitching pro baseball. So over the last let's say three or four months, the content marketing landscape has become busier and busier. I mean there are no conferences and a lot of brands are kind of at a loss in terms of how to connect with prospects and customers. So how do you see the content landscape right now? Is it noisy? Is a room for opportunity as a brand? How should you approach it? Honestly, it is noisy, but it's noisy with really crappy content. When I look at the search engines, even for competitive key terms,...

I'm like, yes, the fields are just right for the picking. If you know what, if you can just really get in the heads of what people are looking for, you can write better content than even what hub spot makes, and hub spot makes some great content, but still it's a little vanilla pretty often and it doesn't take a lot to really get good at one particular niche and produce better content. So I'm seeing that it's noisy, but it's noisy with commodity content right. Why do you why do you think that happens? Like everyone talks about high quality contents and it's important to write the right kinds of content, but so many brands just seem to go through the motions. I don't understand that. Different reasons for different platforms on search. I think it's because the Seo community got a lot of facts wrong. I think facts that maybe we're true in the early two thousands, are no longer true, and so that's led them down a rabbit hole of fighting for backlinks, like spending half to maybe eighty percent of their time looking for backlinks to boost an article instead of focusing on making the best possible answer to the question people are asking a Google and that's led to a lot of commodity content, lots of gaming, lots of putting out posts so you can make your own linking schemes. Now that that's kind of dead now, but you know, it's just throwing a lot out there. All those blood posts they created are still there. And then hiring like hub spot, created a formula, hired pretty good writers and they've been able to scale their their solution and even that's even that's, I'd say, somewhat commodity, though I'd say it's still I mean it's still the best because it's ranking for a lot of different marketing keywords out there. So that's SEO. I think the Seo community is kind of gotten. Everyone mixed up on what's important. I think it's different for social and every social platforms a little bit different. When you're trying to gain the algorithm that leads to you doing a certain kind of thing instead of zigging when everyone else is zagging. Loops. Wait into another controversial topic these days, the idea of gated content. You know, for years Bob companies have generated MQL's, and we can argue about mqls as well, by putting out content and asking people to provide an email address to get access to it. But...

...now there's a growing school thought that that shouldn't happen at all. Is that BEB companies should make their content as accessible was possible and not require an email address. Where do you stand on on that? On that issue, I like to do both. I like to gate content, content, but I like to Ungate all my content. Here's an example. I might write a killer blog post, or I'm at least every blog post I try to publish is trying to be. Is Aiming to be the best on the Internet so that it ranks over time. I will find out which one of those actually hit a hidden note, because a lot of volume will go to it, it does well on social or for whatever reason. I know this is a killer blog post. I will then repackage that blog post. I'll let it continue going out there getting getting the rankings, getting the traffic, but I will pull the content, maybe run it through a designer, put it into a nice pdf, break it up so people can consume it quickly and easily, and then I will get it for all the other blog post people are hitting on that same category and then might give me their email and exchange for this more designed piece of content, because most people, let's be honest, are not going to go to the search engines and try to find out if that gated content is ungated somewhere. They're just to give the email. I would actually take less work for them to give up the email them for them to go search for it elsewhere. Unless you're smart and listen to me and now you're like, Oh that gaty thing I saw on sweetfish media, I could probably go find yes, you can go search for it, you will just find it ungated. So that's how I like to work. I like to do both at the same time. On Gate it and get it. Let it continue to do the work that it's doing ungated. But I still think there's a place and a time to gate the content to build build a list, and that's where Chris Walker and I really would probably disagree. He's into demand generation right, great enough demand so that when people show up to their door they're ready to buy, but they're going to find their way. You don't have to lead them across the yard to get to your front door. They will find their own way and when they show up they're going to run through the sale cycle because they had to take so much initiative, where I'm kind of like, yeah, let's throw a good party out in the out past the yard, let's a draw a lot of people in, but I'm still going to try to lead people from the gate to the door in the nicest, most helpful, Valu driven way possible. So yeah, that...

...makes that makes complete sense. In fact, a great example of the approach I think that you and your partner, James Carboy, are taking is a pdf that I downloaded after giving my email address, on the twenty six ways, the twenty seven ways to launch a B to be podcast. Now, I know that James Rights on that a lot and he certainly talks about that a lot, but nevertheless I gave him my email address for that pdf and there was value in it. I can see exactly where you're coming from. Let me shift gears a little bit. Some of the things that I've been talking a lot about recently, over the last of a while, are the our value propositions and Bram positioning, and I got very excited when you spent it seemed to be an entire week talking about both of those topics and I'm curious about you know why you decided to focus so much time and real estate on what I see is findmental business pillars? Probably because it's the thing that made the biggest difference in my career. It's what made me take the jump from just being like a web designer to a marketer. I knew how to use the tools, I knew how to run the emails, but didn't know how to write copy. And I honestly feel like the value proposition is the is the crux or the the most important part of all your copy, of all your messaging. If you have a bad value proposition, it doesn't matter how good of a copywriter you are, you're not going to get the conversions. You have to figure out what what's appealing and equally exclusive about what you're offering that's going to attract the right kind of people. I actually learned about it through a man named Flint McLaughlin. He wrote my favorite marketing book that no one's ever heard of, or at least a few people have, but it's got people if it's called marketer as philosop of her. We ever heard of it? No, I haven't. No, I'm what's that? What's it about? It's about value propositions, but it's also about conversion optimization. Those are kind of like the hard things in it, but really it's approaching marketing from a philosophical standpoint. Flint has a master's degree in philosophy and then somehow, I don't know how he did this, but he transitioned to marketing. You know, a lot of us have interesting paths into the world of marketing. His was through philosophy and because he came at it from a philosophical...

...approach, just had a really unique perspective. He's trying, he's like everyone's talking about what and how, but we need to talk about why. The why is the most important question you can answer as a marketing so let's unpack that. And that's the book. It's it's a short and concise book, though it's a little bit of an expensive book because he like wrapped it in leather and made it all fancies. So how does its kind of a commitment? I think it's like fifty or eighty bucks or something like that. How is it a line with with Simon Sinex always asks why? Simon Cinek is talking about like a brand perspective, like big, big picture, almost aspirational identity of the company, like why does this company exist versus flint? McLaughlin is going to hit more on like the why. He's going after his answering the question of a value proposition. And that's all of value proposition is, by the way. It's just an answer to the question from your ideal prospect why should I buy from you versus your competitor or not buy at all? The answer to that question is your value proposition. So you could see it's a very different why question, not why are we here, but why should I buy from you? That's probably as succinct the definition of a value proposition that I've heard in a long time. And there are so many different flavors. But at the end of the day, you know, I totally agree with you, is that people don't know what you do and why it matters to them, then you're irrelevant. And they'll move on to the next, next company in the next competitor. Finally, let's talk a little bit about podcasting. Obviously it's something that you're in the Midston every single day in addition to being on Linkedin and writing content. So you're in the either hurricane with sweet fish. What's your take on the podcast landscape and if you're a BEDB brand, how do you get into the game at a time when everybody seems to be jumping on the vandwagon? A load of question sorry about that. Oh Man, honestly, people think bloggings dead and SEO's dead and I'm looking at the I'm looking at the search engines and I'm just seeing green fields everywhere. The podcasting it's even less competitive. So I'm like, oh my goodness,...

...you know how many topics I find with customers and I'm like, there's hardly anyone even podcasting in this category. Yeah, there's a lot in the marketing business, marketing. So like in our niche and our linkedin feeds we're seeing all the marketing podcast yes, there's a lot of marketing podcast even then, I could probably still find a lot of niches within marketing that have no one talking to it. Manufacturing Marketing. There's only a few podcasts in that niche. So if you want to find a vertical and specialize in it, there's still there's still a lot of room to grow that and if you actually go and search for the podcast you'll find that most podcast just aren't up todate. They haven't been updated in six months or longer. There's still a lot of room to grow there and honestly, our approach, even if there was a competitive space, our approach is such that it's still works. It's still works. I don't know, are you familiar with like James's content based network networking model? Know, how does that work? It's the key to podcasting. Before understanding the concept, podcasting was probably my least favorite channel. I was like, Oh, it's hard to get discovered there. You don't even get to really it feels like an owned channel, but you don't really get the relationship with them. It's not like I can single out individuals. Have to jump them over to email or texting you in order to like really own the relationship and it's just hard to grow an audience there. But then I discovered content based networking and it changed the game. For me it's the idea that, instead of just creating content for your perspective audience, we want to do that, but we also want to invite our ideal prospects, our ideal buyers, to be guessed on the show. How many emails have you gotten from people saying, Hey, we have this thing, I think it'll make a world a difference for Your Business? Can I have just fifteen minutes of your time to tell you about it? You get a lot of those emails, right, right, yeah, yeah, all the time, and you say no thanks. Oh yeah, no thanks, it's not relevant you. You probably don't even look at the offer. You're just kind of like, nope, another one, good bye. But what if someone came to you and said Hey, saw what you're doing at your your company, and it looks fantastic. Would love to ask you questions about it on our podcast and teacher you while you'd be like Oh, okay, yeah, you might go...

...and check out their profile and see what they're doing in their podcasts, either they've had a couple episodes going and you're at least got a reply to that and you're probably going to say yes, we find that quite a few people will say yes to being invited to be a guest on a podcast in most industries. Some industries are don't just don't like the talk. But Industries people are going to say yes and when you have them on the show, just kind of like what we're doing now. We got on, we started talking. There's a little bit of a pre show back and forth. We're doing this conversation right now and then when this episode ends, will have a little bit of more conversation afterwards and in the in the meantime, you and I, mark, are building a relationship like we will walk away from this episode and creating content together with a better sense of each other and a little bit more trust. So the next time you you messaged me even about your services and said Hey, do you have fifty minutes? Have this idea on our rampy you, I'm probably going to take that call because there's more relationship there. It's the fastest way to building relationship, especially in a BEDB space where you really just need one good conversation with one specific person to make the difference. The podcastings the gateway into the that relationship with them. They don't always turn into the buyers because they might not be in the market, but that relationship the after you do it a long time, twenty three thousand and fifty hundred episodes in, and that's a lot of relationships you now have in your pocket. And those people they won't stay at that company. They might go to a different company and when they want to build a podcast, guess you, they're going to call exactly. It's exactly. It's interesting because I have a I have a bdb client that is looking or I'm encouraging the start of podcast and one of the things I've said to them is when you invite someone to be a guest on a podcast, it's very rare that someone would say no, because people just love the idea of having a conversation, of building their profile, of creating some some content in a different way. In that respect it's so powerful from a relationship and a prospecting point of view. Well then, this has been great to really appreciate your insight. We've covered a lot of ground in about twenty minutes, which is really hard to do,...

...but but clearly you're doing some great stuff on Linkedin. If you are interested in what dent has to say about personal branding, value proposition, podcasting in a slew of other topics. Follow him on on Linkedin and thanks for listening to another episode of marketing spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, leave a review and subscribe by Itunes or your favorite podcast APP. If you like what your her, please rate it. For show notes of today's conversation and information about Dan, visit marketing spark DOTCLA blog. If you have questions, feedback, would like to suggest a guest or want to learn more about how I help B tob companies as a fractional CMO consultant and advisor, send an email to mark at marketing spark dotcom. Talk to you next time.

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